Charging minors with every crime as an adult?

[DeadPlaya]

8 minutes ago, Triple Seven said:

 

Yeah, think we're talking in different directions. I don't demonize players that elect criminal roleplay, nor do I want crime gone, or diminished, I want it to be somewhat realistic. Cherrypicking is involved when someone wants to roleplay commiting crime and living a life of crime, but not the part of it that lands their character in jail, it's an inherent part of the chosen 'role'.

 

Let's be clear here,I don't want minors to get charged like adults, but I only see a realistic possibility for lighter IC punishments when the punishments for adults are more realistic (which means longer in my opinion). I'm not saying no research was put into the penal code, it's likely more the choice of ratio of jailtime vs. real time.

 

And the crime rate is well beyond IC addressing, no matter how much I agree with you. Addressing the crime rate IC would mean deploying the National Guard each and every night and that won't happen because management won't let it. RICO is a clear enough indication of this; hiding crime isn't needed, LEOs cannot be "OP" (even though they realistically are, unless you're smart enough to stay below the radar).

Can this "take x ic" creature of an argument just being brought up? Debating LEO RP-ers with this stance is like a debate on gun control with conservatives. GTA:W and GTA RP, hell RP in general is an exaggerated, accelerated, amped up version of what it's based of. In this case, Los Angeles. The crime rate is and cannot be taken IC. 80% of the things on this server are not taken IC. We use suspension of disbelief. It's what RP is based on.

Were we to take everything IC as you seem to want, this server would be unplayable. Crime rate's IC? So is LEO training time. 912 hours of training (don't forget to get your 8 hours daily of sleep in there, your meal time n downtime too) for academy, then a full 18 calendar months of three weekly 12 hour shifts or four 10 hour shifts. Then, to become an FTO, we're talking years. Can this just dumb argument be dropped so we can focus on how the fix the actual issue? 

[Mescalero]

19 minutes ago, DeadPlaya said:

The issue here isn't the faction members, it's not the LEOs. It's the trolls, the voice rpers and the criminal social hub players who could not care less about a heavy RP setting and storylines. What they want is to shoot a gun, drive a fast car, steal a faster one and rob people. Once they're caught, they name change or make a new character. And this is allowed. Do you think raising sentence times it going to fix this at all?

 

https://streamable.com/zh5d4e

[DeadPlaya]

1 minute ago, Mescalero said:

https://streamable.com/zh5d4e

Standards are non existent.

[Triple Seven]

2 minutes ago, Taina said:

I agree with everything you said except for this portion right here. I don't think it needs to be as extreme a response ICly as you're suggesting.

 

I've never ICly seen any anti-crime campaigns like some cities irl have been known to push when crime skyrockets. And in the 2+ years that I've been playing minor characters, I've only come across two social worker characters, neither of which took any interest in my character or any that I personally know, despite the fact that there exists a government branch for social services. There are plenty of things that can be done in RP to help address high crime, but none of that is happening. 

 

Changing the rules so that adult sentences are imposed on minors shouldn't be the solution to the IC issue of high crime.

 

For a moment just now I was interested in this type of roleplay, but as we've established people pick the role they want to play, what's the point in trying to approach minors that 99 out of 100 times will ignore any and all attempts at getting them an education or other help to get out of the hood life? It must be extremely frustrating to roleplay this, when most players are OOCly motivated to not roll with it, and likely not even try to deceive the government employee trying.

[Taina]

37 minutes ago, Triple Seven said:

 

For a moment just now I was interested in this type of roleplay, but as we've established people pick the role they want to play, what's the point in trying to approach minors that 99 out of 100 times will ignore any and all attempts at getting them an education or other help to get out of the hood life? It must be extremely frustrating to roleplay this, when most players are OOCly motivated to not roll with it, and likely not even try to deceive the government employee trying.

 

But I don't believe that's how things would play out. The players behind minor characters that I personally know (the ones who can RP well, at least) are eager for adult characters to step in and impact the RP in some way, shape or form. I've regularly been asked by such players to RP someone's mom or aunt or grandma just to help provide more opportunities for char development. There are good RPers behind a lot of these kid characters that are eager for proper RP from adult characters outside of the bad influences they're surrounded by. Social workers are in a perfect position to do that.

 

But you're right, not everyone is cut out for that type of role. It'd have to be someone who actually would enjoy RPing the ups and downs than come with the small victories and huge disappointments of working with at-risk youth. 

 

I'd recommend trying it if you're actually interested. Yes, you will encounter some terrible roleplay, but not any more or less than you would frequenting a nightclub imo lol. RP standards all across the server need to improve.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Taina

[Taina]

48 minutes ago, Triple Seven said:

what's the point in trying to approach minors that 99 out of 100 times will ignore any and all attempts at getting them an education or other help to get out of the hood life? It must be extremely frustrating to roleplay this

 

And I'm glad you point this out because I think that's another issue for a lot of players. It's just another example of a play-to-win mentality.

 

Sure, the IC goal of a social worker would be to help 'save' these kids, but that's not always what happens IRL. And we shouldn't expect it to happen in-game, either. It should be about the experience of having an adult actually try to help kids in problematic environments and watching how it all plays out ICly. There will be plenty of kids who will be resistant to any help, and kids who will be eager for it - and then there will be kids who are impacted in some ways but not others. There's a lot of realism behind this. The RL equivalent of a typical kid growing up in an environment like LS's South Side isn't aware he needs saving.

 

In my perspective, realism is what makes RP enjoyable to people who actually care about the stories rather than 'winning'. And threads like this are frustrating to see because it's only attempting to further kill realism on the server. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Taina

[waterwings]

2 hours ago, Taina said:

 

Realism is always a good argument to bring up on an RP server.

 

We should allow realism to exist where possible, and up until now allowing minors to receive lighter sentences has been possible, so what's the issue? The issue is that some players are attempting to address poor portrayal issues and high rates of crime via a rule like this. And that's inappropriate. 

Realism means most kids end up getting charged as adults anyways, like RL USA.

1 hour ago, Taina said:

Changing the rules so that adult sentences are imposed on minors shouldn't be the solution to the IC issue of high crime.

 

We're not changing the rules. We don't have laws for minors.

If we have the argument of kids being charged as adults, do you want to see juvenile detention? Who's going to RP the organisation?

If you want to see changes, be an agent of those changes. Change must come IC, through elaborate acts passed through the senate. An OOC addendum "Minors will only be charged for 80% of the jailtime" won't make sense. Furthermore, I'd be fine with kids having lower sentences if they'd still RP aging up. Most kids doing heavy crimes will spend time in juvenile until they're adults. 

[DLimit]

5 hours ago, Rushing said:

How is making jail times longer and forcing people to RP gonna increase the population? It’s just gonna demotivate people from RPing at all lol. 

Maybe it'll eliminate the lower-quality player-base from our server, then.

Win/Win... don't need to ban people after 10 warnings and a-jails, just force them to RP in jail/prison on a "Heavy RP Server".

[eTaylor]

1 hour ago, DeadPlaya said:

The punishment isn't going to jail. That can be fun sometimes, but I for one enjoy the literal freedom of rp you get when you're not locked up.

 

What people view as "punishment" is the fact that they can't RP with their friends or faction members as they'd like. This phenomenon is unique to criminal factions. PD or SD can't make you not partner up with your friend. Neither can FD or fucking Aurora Industries or whatever.

I meant it more in the fact that we have players who look at someone breaking IC law and going “that person needs to be put in jail so they never ever do that again!”. 

[Taina]

1 minute ago, BjornV said:

Realism means most kids end up getting charged as adults anyways, like RL USA.

 

 

What?

 

2 minutes ago, BjornV said:

 

We're not changing the rules. We don't have laws for minors.

 

 

Currently, minor characters don't always receive the same sentences as adult characters for all crimes. Is that not the case anymore? I'm pretty sure I've received different sentences for identical crimes on my minor characters vs my adult characters.