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Charging minors with every crime as an adult?


Narco

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45 minutes ago, Taina said:

 

1. Irrelevant to determining whether or not the players are fit for the server. Being forced into a role that's different from the one you meant to play is something that very few RPers are willing to do. I once had to take a job ICly at a bar. I hated it. I went with it because it was an important part of my character's story but I know plenty of other players who have had similar experiences and simply quit. I can't blame them for that. They don't need to spend whatever little game time they've got RPing a role they don't enjoy RPing.

Forgive me. I’m genuinely asking because I’m curious. Isn’t going to jail part of a characters story when they commit a crime and get caught? This seems like cherry picking. You want to do crime, but don’t want to experience the consequence when you get caught? Isn’t that a pretty poor mentality? There are going to be times where the RP you are doing is something you may not enjoy. It’s part of your characters story. I’m sure there are plenty of other roles that one can come up with using the same logic and it would be laughed out the door. They don’t want to RP a role, so why should they have to? I don’t enjoy Role A, so why should I have to experience it? Nothing would ever get done lol. So why is this any different? 
 

I’d at least advocate a middle ground. They don’t have to serve it all in-game but the sentences should be longer. People’s characters shouldn’t be getting out of jail in mere hours unless it’s something really petty. 

Edited by Coolwhip
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19 minutes ago, Coolwhip said:

Forgive me. I’m genuinely asking because I’m curious. Isn’t going to jail part of a characters story when they commit a crime and get caught? This seems like cherry picking. You want to do crime, but don’t want to experience the consequence when you get caught? Isn’t that a pretty poor mentality? There are going to be times where the RP you are doing is something you may not enjoy. It’s part of your characters story. As a criminal, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Why do you have the luxury of a get out of jail free card just because you don’t enjoy jail? I’m sure there are plenty of other roles that one can come up with using the same logic and it would be laughed out the door. They don’t want to RP a role, so why should they have to? I don’t enjoy Role A, so why should I have to experience it? Nothing would ever get done lol.

 

So why is this any different? 

 

I'm glad you asked this because I realize I may not have been too clear in that post. I'm not in any way arguing that minors should be allowed to go without consequence for their crimes. I'm arguing that those consequences should not be the same as those faced by adult characters, because that simply doesn't contribute to realistic RP. 

 

Some players here are attempting to 'rob peter just to pay paul' with this argument that forcing minors to face adult sentences is a good idea for the sake of improving RP quality. With some exceptions, there isn't much realism behind forcing this. But throw realism out of the window, I guess - all because some people have issues with minor characters, as if there aren't terribly portrayed characters of all ages all across the server. 

 

So to be clear, it's not about whether or not minors (or anyone else for that matter) should be punished. It's about how long those punishments should be.  To force a 15 year old character to RP a 3 month sentence in real time for something like evading, alongside lifers? That's extreme and unnecessary imo. All that will do is kill RP because most people simply won't log on, and it certainly kills realism.

 

Edited by Taina
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10 hours ago, knppel said:

I doubt we have representative data tbh. even 60 likes on a suggestion means that's -conservatively- not even 10% of players mind you.

 

I can only urge management and devs to develop an idea (heavyrp?) and stick to that

I never said I backed "representative democracy" or something. Management should figure out a path for this server, but nevertheless there have been incidents where a change was made in the past (That would arguably be healthy for the server in the long-term) that was immediately backtracked because of massive OOC backlash from the community. I'm simply stating what I imagine would happen vs what I think should happen.

20 minutes ago, Coolwhip said:

Forgive me. I’m genuinely asking because I’m curious. Isn’t going to jail part of a characters story when they commit a crime and get caught? This seems like cherry picking. You want to do crime, but don’t want to experience the consequence when you get caught? Isn’t that a pretty poor mentality? There are going to be times where the RP you are doing is something you may not enjoy. It’s part of your characters story. As a criminal, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Why do you have the luxury of a get out of jail free card just because you don’t enjoy jail? I’m sure there are plenty of other roles that one can come up with using the same logic and it would be laughed out the door. They don’t want to RP a role, so why should they have to? I don’t enjoy Role A, so why should I have to experience it? Nothing would ever get done lol.

Amen!
If I fuck up on my legal character I don't skip the consequences of that either, whatever they might be. Something people dont often realise, but legal character consequences can be just as harsh. I had my driving permissions revoked on my cop char for 2+ OOC weeks because I hit someone with a car (Which was influenced by an OOC bug) because they crossed the road whilst I had my sirens+strobelights on. This character was a detective, effectively rendering me useless for 2 weeks. 14 days. Would to would that this had been an illegal character, it'd have gone to jail for 60 minutes over reckless driving.

 

Consequences are there on all sides. Nobody truly likes them OOC, but that doesn't mean you get to pretend that they never happened. If my character had outright murdered someone I'd be met with an arrest and a lengthy OOC faction ban for breaking corruption rules. How's that for IC + OOC consequences?

 

IC consequences are there to be RPed out and to provide character development.

Edited by BjornV
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6 minutes ago, BjornV said:

Amen!
If I fuck up on my legal character I don't skip the consequences of that either, whatever they might be. Something people dont often realise, but legal character consequences can be just as harsh. I had my driving permissions revoked on my cop char for 2+ OOC weeks because I hit someone with a car (Which was influenced by an OOC bug) because they crossed the road whilst I had my sirens+strobelights on. This character was a detective, effectively rendering me useless for 2 weeks. 14 days. Would to would that this had been an illegal character, it'd have gone to jail for 60 minutes over reckless driving.

 

Consequences are there on all sides. Nobody truly likes them OOC, but that doesn't mean you get to pretend that they never happened. If my character had outright murdered someone I'd be met with an arrest and a lengthy OOC faction ban for breaking corruption rules. How's that for IC + OOC consequences?

 

IC consequences are there to be RPed out and to provide character development.

 

I don't think a single person in this thread has argued for zero consequences. The argument here is about what are the appropriate consequences - and imo it's certainly not charging minors as adults for every crime.

Edited by Taina
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10 minutes ago, Taina said:

 

I don't think a single person in this thread has argued for zero consequences. The argument here is about what are the appropriate consequences - and imo it's certainly not charging minors as adults for every crime.

I can agree with that. Seems a bit harsh to throw the book at a minor for EVERY crime in some attempt to curb poor minor portrayal. I think a more harsh OOC approach to punishing those players for bad portrayal is better suited. No need to lump everyone into the same basket when not everyone is bad. 

Edited by Coolwhip
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8 minutes ago, Taina said:

 

I don't think a single person in this thread has argued for zero consequences. The argument here is about what are the appropriate consequences - and imo it's certainly not charging minors as adults for every crime.

I don't have much care for people RPing a minor when 9.9 out of 10 interactions I have with minors are just murderers who RP being strong enough to beat trained SWAT operators in a physical fight and who somehow have the ability to shoot an AK-47 like a trained military member.

 

We already have short jailtimes. Why'd they be any shorter just because you RP a kid?

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32 minutes ago, Coolwhip said:

People’s characters shouldn’t be getting out of jail in mere hours unless it’s something really petty. 

12 minutes ago, BjornV said:

Would to would that this had been an illegal character, it'd have gone to jail for 60 minutes over reckless driving.

 

I do agree with these points but this just points to an issue with how IC timing is managed on the server. The same could be argued for the countless injuries (especially severe ones) that characters suffer but are simply shrugged off after a brief hospital visit. Or an hour or two. The issue isn't minors. Or the rules that exist around minor characters, specifically. Until the 'timing' issue is addressed across the server, minors shouldn't be singled out this way. 

 

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Just now, BjornV said:

I don't have much care for people RPing a minor when 9.9 out of 10 interactions I have with minors are just murderers who RP being strong enough to beat trained SWAT operators in a physical fight and who somehow have the ability to shoot an AK-47 like a trained military member.

 

We already have short jailtimes. Why'd they be any shorter just because you RP a kid?

 

Because that's how it tends to work in the real world, too. That's why. 

 

And it's unfortunate that you've had such bad experiences with minor characters. We're not all like that, not in the least bit.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Taina said:

Because that's how it tends to work in the real world, too. That's why. 

 

If we had a good functioning justice system that would be able to take the workload of handling each cases of minors getting jailed with difference times, maybe. It's a case by case basis. Realism isn't a good argument to bring up here. 

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5 minutes ago, Mescalero said:

If we had a good functioning justice system that would be able to take the workload of handling each cases of minors getting jailed with difference times, maybe. It's a case by case basis. Realism isn't a good argument to bring up here. 

 

Realism is always a good argument to bring up on an RP server.

 

We should allow realism to exist where possible, and up until now allowing minors to receive lighter sentences has been possible, so what's the issue? The issue is that some players are attempting to address poor portrayal issues and high rates of crime via a rule like this. And that's inappropriate. 

Edited by Taina
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