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Close/Restrict the General Discussions forum


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The general discussions forum is a terminal cancer in this communities brain (To which I am definitely a contributor too) no matter who you are, this is plain and obvious to everyone. In it's current standing, it serves only to create tension and toxicity through the same 5 controversial threads that get rehashed every few weeks with a different coat of paint.

 

A few points: 

 

  • No good discussions are happening in General Discussions.
  • Besides light hearted meme and community threads like "Screenshots with threatening Aura's" 95% of general discussion threads are really just suggestions.
  • As we saw with the Illegal Faction Revamp thread any discussion that needs to happen can be addressed and made by staff in a manner that is 10x more productive.
  • General Discussions is the Fox News/MSNBC (Take your pick) of GTAW and really only serves to enflame existing frustrations in the community.
  • General Discussion is so bad most staff members don't even look into these threads to moderate which in turn leads to more unchecked toxicity in the community.
  • @Wuhtah deserves to see the sun at least once a month

 

In all seriousness, allow people to keep posting in the light hearted threads I mentioned but lock new posts to Administrators, if someone has a topic they feel needs a thread they can reach out to staff and have it made for that discussion OR they can make a suggestion thread where it can be debated and quickly accepted/denied by management. 

 

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

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Instead of just closing everything off, and probably pushing it to another subforum, it'd be cool if it was more strictly moderated to avoid threads going off the rails and ending up as one of the standard discussions we have. 

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7 minutes ago, mj2002 said:

Instead of just closing everything off, and probably pushing it to another subforum, it'd be cool if it was more strictly moderated to avoid threads going off the rails and ending up as one of the standard discussions we have. 

 

I'm not saying close everything off complete, if someone approaches staff with a genuinely good discussion topic it can be posted and heavily monitored from that point on. But the vast majority of these threads are just vague suggestive posts that normally lean heavily one way or the other significantly effecting the discussion. 

 

This thread is a great example. It really is just a suggestion but by posting it in general discussion it just opens it up to endless back and forth since staff seems to think these threads need to remain open until they reach a toxic breaking point. However that's not how suggestion threads are treated at all. In the suggestion forums, people debate back and forth about the actual suggestion and if it's something staff isn't looking to address its quickly shut down.  

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I think your heart is in the right place, but I don't think this is the right way to go about it. People need to have a place to freely discuss topics in a more formal setting. Healthy discussion and debate should be welcome so long as it's respectful. I created a thread about snitching; as a newer player it was absolutely enlightening to see both sides.

 

Now, I agree with you 100% that there's a ton of toxicity, and that's not helpful at all. I think rather than using the nuclear option, a more strategic approach should be taken via stronger moderation. It shouldn't just fall on one or two admin's shoulders, and if more moderators are needed, they should be brought on.

 

On 7/9/2022 at 4:17 PM, Trupiano said:

No good discussions are happening in General Discussions.

No good discussions at all? I guess I see it differently. While there is a ton of toxicity, staff might be able to pull out good points from the healthy posts.

 

On 7/9/2022 at 4:17 PM, Trupiano said:

General Discussions is the Fox News/MSNBC (Take your pick) of GTAW and really only serves to enflame existing frustrations in the community.

I would argue the Discord is above and beyond as far as toxicity goes. I'm afraid to even post in there since I was picked on by like 3 people for simply letting someone know I crashed. It seems like a constant troll fest in there, and it's quite off putting. The forums seem much more tolerable.

 

On 7/9/2022 at 4:17 PM, Trupiano said:

General Discussion is so bad most staff members don't even look into these threads to moderate which in turn leads to more unchecked toxicity in the community.

How do you know this for a fact? I promise I'm not being rhetorical 😄. If this is really happening, I don't think the tail should be wagging the dog. Hand out warnings/temporary bans to repeat offenders.

 

On 7/9/2022 at 4:17 PM, Trupiano said:

@Wuhtah deserves to see the sun at least once a month

 

She does an amazing job. If she needs help, maybe it's time to bring on new staff.

Edited by oliviarav3n
minor derp fixes!
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4 hours ago, oliviarav3n said:

No good discussions at all? I guess I see it differently. While there is a ton of toxicity, staff might be able to pull out good points from the healthy posts.

 

After you've been here awhile you'll realize that most if not all of these threads are just like I said, repeated topics with a new coat of paint. There's been at least 30 threads since I joined this community about addressing criminal RP issue. The only one that's even been remotely productive was the IFM run Illegal RP thread. I'm not saying good discussions can't happen, but it happen rarely. Then again, I specifically addressed this concern in my suggestion. If someone has a valid idea for a general discussion thread, they can reach out to staff and have it made. At which point staff can closely monitor the topic and keep it on subject.

 

4 hours ago, oliviarav3n said:

I would argue the Discord is above and beyond as far as toxicity goes. I'm afraid to even post in there since I was picked on by like 3 people for simply letting someone know I crashed. It seems like a constant troll fest in there, and it's quite off putting. The forums seem much more tolerable.

The discord is absolutely more toxic then the forums, but general discussion specifically isn't much better. 

 

4 hours ago, oliviarav3n said:

How do you know this for a fact? I promise I'm not being rhetorical 😄. If this is really happening, I don't think the tail should be wagging the dog. Hand out warnings/temporary bans to repeat offenders.

 

Because a senior admin admitted to me that the majority of staff do not look at general discussion threads, this has gotten better over time but by and large they still aren't looking at them enough to extract any valuable information. Honestly, half these threads explode into 13+ pages of back and forth debate within hours and no one is really gonna go through all that to figure out exact what the community wants, they barely do it to even moderate these threads.

 

As for warning/temporary bans for repeat offenders? It does happen when these offenders are obvious but at the same time, there are a lot of people who (Especially on the legal side) blur the lines between personal opinions and toxic attacks. Heres an example: You can personally be of the opinion that all criminal RPers are bad and are just living out violent fantasies on the server. Your wrong, that statement is inflammatory and is going to lead to a toxic back and forth but it's not really a bannable offense, its an opinion as wrong and as toxic as it is.

 

4 hours ago, oliviarav3n said:

She does an amazing job. If she needs help, maybe it's time to bring on new staff.

 

We've been expanding the staff team for years, these issues have never really gotten better even after a team specifically for forum moderation was formed.

 

 

Edited by Trupiano
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I think the ability to engage in these discussions publicly are what stop genuine concerns from being brushed under the rug because it can't really be ignored, and I don't think these once-in-a-blue-moon topics like the one referenced (revamp thread) are regular enough to combat all the issues this server has. I agree with you in principle, I just don't think that removing a platform that allows you to ask questions to receive answers, or support, is the solution here. One of the necessities to become staff is actually 'joining in on general discussions to become more engaged with the community' believe it or not, something I think should be universal whether staff or player.

 

I concur that the majority of these repetitive and pointless topics are becoming something of a novelty. They sort of neutralize themselves because they're either misrepresented or blame shifting.

 

There was a sub forum on LSRP labelled 'verified discussions' where key figures of their respective teams (ifm and lfm) had to engage on issues and threads relevant to their domain. It wasn't only a moderation tool, it was also a way to ensure these teams became more involved and vocal around the aforementioned issues. I believe this is something that could contribute to the amount of silliness and detachment in the community at present.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Or just slow down posts.

There's no reason to literally let people argue- but felt, it happens in EVERY thread at some point.

 

I'm not meaning to point fingers, I too am capable of causing such, the point is, many threads that start out fairly productive as an actual discussion with many sides bringing in their opinions, degrade as soon as someone decides to respond to posts repeatedly ( @Wuhtah being the exception here as while not always official statements those are moderator posts still!).

 

This is a pattern that can be observed in every thread and it's far from always trolls or new joiners that derail these threads.

 

The problem is, while such debates often run civilized, thus giving no immediate reason for staff to take action, it does effectively kill the whole thread, every single time.

And consequently the original question/debate.

Why? Because no one is gonna read up 3+ pages of people going back and forth over opinions.

 

Edited by knppel
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I don't want to stop people from posting because even the 'troll' posts are a breather for me. I chuckle at a few of the posts here and there and do not moderate it as much even though I probably should. 

 

I could hide posts that start arguments - but in fairness, that's how good discussions CAN start. When people derail, I do try to get it back on topic, but sometimes the derailment IS good as it covers something else. However, maybe a separate post would be better instead.

 

There was a post saying not to lock threads as often as we do - but if we do not lock them once the conversation is 'over', then it does get derailed. People have different opinions of when the conversation is over and I do not want to cut anyone short of it - so as a staff member's perspective, it's a bit of a lose-lose situation. 

 

I don't mind moderating the threads whether it's a bit trolly or not. You guys have wonderful input (I know I need to look at one thread I've been tagged in a few times) and also some good feedback/suggestions - so I don't want to limit this at all even if there are 80% troll/derailment posts and 20% on topic posts. 

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