[Discussion] What can improve RP interactions between players and general RP standards?

[girl you a mess]

14 minutes ago, TotalDeeJay said:

In answering the first part of this question "what can improve RP interactions between players"

 

Stop being so closed off to new players/characters. For those players who don't have OOC friends in GTA:W, it can sometimes be near impossible to get going, due to clichés formed between players. 

 

Be more open to new players 

I feel like the general vibe is definitely different and less welcoming than it was when I joined last year. I think the fact that everyone's focus on improving RP by figuring out how to better ban everyone contributes to this.

 

Like people take less risks now, or are just more closed off outside of known friends, because the general culture is so focused on escalations, or eliminating people or things they don't like, instead of focused on finding ways to fit the threads of their stories together.

[RedRover]

17 minutes ago, Midwest said:

I reference you to "i dont want to OD in LA". He was on the extreme end of what you're talking about, and he's worked his way into joining SD and quickly becoming an important asset for the custody side of the faction. 

Then I’d say the punishment worked as intended. Temp bans are much more effective at getting the point across. The system should absolutely take into account the length of time they’ve been on the server as well as their intent to learn and get better. Even a skilled RP’er from another server will take time to adjust. 
 

Here’s how I see it. First of all, any new system should get rid of ajails. In my opinion, there should be a 3 month (time up for debate) probationary period where ONLY warnings are handed out up to a point. It should start as a three strike system. You get 3 warnings? It advances to a temp ban system. This temp ban system can graduate from 1 week to 6 months based on severity and intent of the player. Were they malicious? Were they willing to learn and turn themselves around? Have they been around for over a year and still have no grasp of what they’re doing wrong? Giving someone the benefit of the doubt after having been here for well over a year? No. They should’ve known better. A new player barely on the server a week? That’s when benefit of the doubt comes into play. 
 

Eventually, there must be some end to the punishment. People shouldn’t get unlimited chances. Why have rules at all at that point if they can just keep breaking them? That hurts the server more than it helps. It’s usually painfully easy to pick out the ones willing to turn it around and act accordingly over the ones just abusing the system with no regards to rules.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Brofessor

[Mistery14]

3 minutes ago, Midwest said:

I reference you to "i dont want to OD in LA". He was on the extreme end of what you're talking about, and he's worked his way into joining SD and quickly becoming an important asset for the custody side of the faction. 

 

I'm a little confused now, because I did say:

 

Quote

"While I agree with most of it, one thing I'll definitely disagree with specifically is the whole "Barring X player from Y faction" based on their record."

 

It only enforced the earlier point that I made agreeing with this, that people can indeed better themselves and their RP, and should be able to eventually be able to join factions and roles despite their records if they display change:

 

Quote

"this (barring people from specific factions just because of an admin record) would imply that any other faction that the player with the poor record will be able to join requires less quality for RP standards, which is absolutely not the case(...) players should be expected to provide good roleplay and no faction or role should be exempt from that."

 

This means, LSSD/LSPD is not the only faction/role that contributes and affects other people's RP, if they bar people with a record from joining, why wouldn't it be the case for other roles/factions? If those players change and are displaying good roleplay, even with a record that dates from a while back, why should they be barred from joining a specific faction ever again? Does it make the factions/roles that allow players in with a record any less important?

 

Either way, OD in LA was the exception to this apparent restriction for players. This is good and It's an example that things can indeed change which is what I was ultimately saying.

[Olivia]

Great thread OP. Some of the things I'm going to touch on certainly have an OOC component as well, but that's because I feel it's all relative.

 

First, the overall unnecessary IC hostility and conflict needs to be toned back just a smidge. I totally understand that conflict is a major piece to our world, but time and time again I either see, or hear about characters being messed with in public spaces for absolutely no good reason. At times it honestly gets tiresome and it's just way over the top.  Conflict in the world is just the nature of the beast; however, I don't think that every single waking moment needs to be filled with it, especially in bars/clubs, etc. I think if characters let minor things go rather than constantly making a mountain out of a mole hill, it will cascade into a better experience for everyone.

 

We also have to pull back on the OOC hate. Civilians rag on criminal RPer, criminal RPers ragging on civilian RPers. We're all part of the same team with the same objective: to build this world. Criminal RPers need to stop with this "mallrat" hate mentality. These "mallrats" are there to help your world come ALIVE. They're your characters' potential victims, potential witnesses, potential girlfriends/boyfriends, entertainment, bartenders, waitresses, and potential friends. Do we want a world that feels alive, or do we want one that is stagnant and gang on gang 24/7? On the flip side, civilian RPers need to respect the DANGER of what the criminals bring and there is a very real chance of losing due to that danger. Losing can be fun. Don't be afraid to lose.

 

From a general OOC perspective, we need to remember that there are people behind the computer screen. We all play a game we enjoy and the ultimate goal is to have fun. Some people have fun in different ways. We shouldn't shy away from respectful OOC communication to resolve issues. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to reach out to someone and just make sure things are on the up and up. We shouldn't be afraid to discuss what happened, what's happening, or where something might go in order to resolve some possible OOC anxiety.  Just today, I had an IC incident that I was going to escalate to a player report. After giving it a little thought when the dust settled, I talked to the player  (who was very reasonable) and we came to a solution TOGETHER. This not only helps the admins, but it probably forged some OOC respect between the both of us. Try it. It works. Discord trolling, threads getting locked due to OOC hate - it needs to get better as well. This will benefit everyone. Better OOC communication, less trolling, less hate... I feel it will help alleviate both OOC issues and many IC concerns to a huge extent; that in turn will free up admin for nonsense issues, thus improving the server and community as a whole.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paenymion]

Kinda skimmed the six pages so far...but in my opinion the issue is wildly varying ideas of what "a heavy text-based roleplay server"  actually means (this is what GTA World is advertised as).  For some it's to build up their gang and win pvp with a faint coating of being IC because "it's not me, it's my character" but in reality it's 100% OOC.  Let's not even pretend it isn't, there is so much OOC drama and stupidity over what should be IC things.  Plus how quickly people are to CK or otherwise NC a character just to skip prison so they can get back into the pvp on a new shell of a character.  On the other end it's the real hardcore roleplayers who want to be fully immersed and build a character and fully separate IC from OOC. Then there are all kinds in between, like people who just want to feel successful by farming money and driving expensive cars.   When you have all these wildly different ideas of what "heavy RP" is in one server, you're gonna get conflict.

 

[im not a hero]

I don't understand how people find so much drama, or things to complain about. Just enjoy the RP and chill with the ego.

[Humour]

1 hour ago, Brofessor said:

Here’s how I see it. First of all, any new system should get rid of ajails. In my opinion, there should be a 3 month (time up for debate) probationary period where ONLY warnings are handed out up to a point. It should start as a three strike system. You get 3 warnings? It advances to a temp ban system. This temp ban system can graduate from 1 week to 6 months based on severity and intent of the player. Were they malicious? Were they willing to learn and turn themselves around? Have they been around for over a year and still have no grasp of what they’re doing wrong? Giving someone the benefit of the doubt after having been here for well over a year? No. They should’ve known better. A new player barely on the server a week? That’s when benefit of the doubt comes into play. 

 

It should be a point-based system where X amount of points amount to X punishment. You get warned for metagaming? 6 points. Oh, you already have 4? That makes 10, 10 points means you get banned for 2 weeks. Of course this is just an example but by this system, you're not getting banned for a specific thing you did, it's the /whole/ picture of your record. These points could be set to expire over X amount of time but they should still stick to your record on the UCP.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Humour

[Mistery14]

4 minutes ago, oliviarav3n said:

Great thread OP. Some of the things I'm going to touch on certainly have an OOC component as well, but that's because I feel it's all relative.

 

First, the overall unnecessary IC hostility and conflict needs to be toned back just a smidge. I totally understand that conflict is a major piece to our world, but time and time again I either see, or hear about characters being messed with in public spaces for absolutely no good reason. At times it honestly gets tiresome and it's just way over the top.  Conflict in the world is just the nature of the beast; however, I don't think that every single waking moment needs to be filled with it, especially in bars/clubs, etc. I think if characters let minor things go rather than constantly making a mountain out of a mole hill, it will cascade into a better experience for everyone.

 

We also have to pull back on the OOC hate. Civilians rag on criminal RPer, criminal RPers ragging on civilian RPers. We're all part of the same team with the same objective: to build this world. Criminal RPers need to stop with this "mallrat" hate mentality. These "mallrats" are there to help your world come ALIVE. They're your characters' potential victims, potential witnesses, potential girlfriends/boyfriends, entertainment, bartenders, waitresses, and potential friends. Do we want a world that feels alive, or do we want one that is stagnant and gang on gang 24/7? On the flip side, civilian RPers need to respect the DANGER of what the criminals bring and there is a very real chance of losing due to that danger. Losing can be fun. Don't be afraid to lose.

 

From a general OOC perspective, we need to remember that there are people behind the computer screen. We all play a game we enjoy and the ultimate goal is to have fun. Some people have fun in different ways. We shouldn't shy away from respectful OOC communication to resolve issues. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to reach out to someone and just make sure things are on the up and up. We shouldn't be afraid to discuss what happened, what's happening, or where something might go in order to resolve some possible OOC anxiety.  Just today, I had an IC incident that I was going to escalate to a player report. After giving it a little thought when the dust settled, I talked to the player  (who was very reasonable) and we came to a solution TOGETHER. This not only helps the admins, but it probably forged some OOC respect between the both of us. Try it. It works. Discord trolling, threads getting locked due to OOC hate - it needs to get better as well. This will benefit everyone. Better OOC communication, less trolling, less hate... I feel it will help alleviate both OOC issues and many IC concerns to a huge extent; that in turn will free up admin for nonsense issues, thus improving the server and community as a whole.

 

 

First off I'm going to say, I really appreciate how you, and other people on here have been really constructive and shown a true passion when explaining their own views and points and I can definitely sense that it's the case for you as well. So I'm just going to add to your comment:

 

You bring up an excellent point about conflict - It seems like a lot of people are taking IC things personally OOC because they feel attached to their characters or the roleplay they decide to partake in and see hostile IC interactions as OOC targeting, and the problem only worsens if that person does not open up to different views and other types of roleplay because their opinion will narrow down to what they've experienced on one side of the fence.

 

No one is happy to see their characters being robbed. I do understand many bad encounters happen. But it still doesn't have to induce an automatic OOC negative response if the situation doesn't warrant it - If the player is roleplaying properly and not displaying poor quality RP, then there is no reason to feel bitter against that player. It is not a personal OOC attack. I've seen 2 somewhat recent robbery situations so far where the RP itself was good but a rule was broken and the situation voided. In that case, it's best to remind the player that their RP was good, but the way it was executed breached a rule. (i.e, using cars without approval, ect..) - It's extremely important to separate the two in that case and not dismiss/invalidate the RP.

 

As for RP quality standards again, I believe that many encounters IC, especially hostile IC situations would have a better outcome overall if people allowed each other this when playing:

 

- Time to reply with a /me of their own before an action is taken.

- Time to detail their /me to provide some form of intent of their action. (i.e, is your action malicious or benignant?)

I'll quote something I said earlier to make my final point, not just for the sake of repeating myself:

 

Quote

 

Let's take a pretty tense situation that could escalate if not enough detail is given: Someone is pointing a gun at you because they're pissed off.

 

/me grabs [name's] arm - Is a great way to get shot. Your intentions are not shown.

 

/me lowers his hand slowly on [name's] arm in an attempt to diffuse the situation, speaking in a calm tone. - Is a great way to have a chance to not get shot. Sure, you might still get shot, but the intent to diffuse the situation is shown and the player doesn't have to interpret your intent. Simply grabbing the arm might make them think you're trying to go for their gun even if it's not the case.

 

It's never black-and-white, but it'd still be an improvement if more people took their time to put a little more detail in their /mes. This in addition to allowing time for other people to respond to your /mes would be optimal. As a side-note, I think short /mes to begin with are a direct result of people not being allowed that OOC response time.

 

 

Reciprocity is extremely important in any RP setting. If no one is allowing each other time for those two things, how can RP standards improve?

 

We can't have one-sided RP happen, it should not be hidden under an obscure powergaming/common courtesy rule, but instead be stated as a rule of its own that players must wait for the other party to respond before going ahead with their action, whether it's running away, walking away, or punching. People will take the easiest and most advantageous path there is, and one-sided RP is certainly one of the paths.

[Xaleya]

4 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

 

First off I'm going to say, I really appreciate how you, and other people on here have been really constructive and shown a true passion when explaining their own views and points and I can definitely sense that it's the case for you as well. So I'm just going to add to your comment:

 

You bring up an excellent point about conflict - It seems like a lot of people are taking IC things personally OOC because they feel attached to their characters or the roleplay they decide to partake in and see hostile IC interactions as OOC targeting, and the problem only worsens if that person does not open up to different views and other types of roleplay because their opinion will narrow down to what they've experienced on one side of the fence.

 

No one is happy to see their characters being robbed. I do understand many bad encounters happen. But it still doesn't have to induce an automatic OOC negative response if the situation doesn't warrant it - If the player is roleplaying properly and not displaying poor quality RP, then there is no reason to feel bitter against that player. It is not a personal OOC attack. I've seen 2 somewhat recent robbery situations so far where the RP itself was good but a rule was broken and the situation voided. In that case, it's best to remind the player that their RP was good, but the way it was executed breached a rule. (i.e, using cars without approval, ect..) - It's extremely important to separate the two in that case and not dismiss/invalidate the RP.

 

As for RP quality standards again, I believe that many encounters IC, especially hostile IC situations would have a better outcome overall if people allowed each other this when playing:

 

- Time to reply with a /me of their own before an action is taken.

- Time to detail their /me to provide some form of intent of their action. (i.e, is your action malicious or benignant?)

I'll quote something I said earlier to make my final point, not just for the sake of repeating myself:

 

 

Reciprocity is extremely important in any RP setting. If no one is allowing each other time for those two things, how can RP standards improve?

 

We can't have one-sided RP happen, it should not be hidden under an obscure powergaming/common courtesy rule, but instead be stated as a rule of its own that players must wait for the other party to respond before going ahead with their action, whether it's running away, walking away, or punching. People will take the easiest and most advantageous path there is, and one-sided RP is certainly one of the paths.

I've been robbed a few times. I've seen a lot of stuff and most of the poor robberies were turned down once the rule of "No Bike  and no  vehicles" rule was set up, that raised the bar and fixed many of the issues.

I've seen some random robberies and been in others that were shit, not in terms of RP quality but itself the application of the robbery was a disaster from a logical standpoint. 

Tho I been in others were the players at least try but I'm kinda bitter due the p2w mentality and seems related to several factors.
The situation itself was a quick mugging because I parked away, the guy noticed it and pulled a mask (Gang territory, cmon why a mask in broad daylight), the robbery was fine since he pulled the proper distance away from people, was armed but never showed anything, only used his control over the area to asset dominance (which is very related to many of the IRL robberies I've been victim. You know they armed, they know you know and they take it chill as long you don't do something stupid, they only go violent when you go violent or stupid. Even so they start aggressive, when they see you calmed they somehow calm down). I like creative ways to get robbed than the typical ones i've experienced from samp servers but the play to win mentality isn't isolated within the "illegal side" but everywhere.

Another thing is people discussed about marks, marks exist in real life and they don't know how you are, they care about what you are carrying and how easy target you are. Even if you are cop, gangster or whatever. If you being too "lousy" showing chains, watches, expensive stuff, they will tag you and take you down.
"The victim estimated that $604,000 worth of items were stolen, including two watches, a laptop and an iPad."

17 L.A. gangs involved in 'follow home robberies' that target people once they're alone, police say (nbcnews.com)

Right know jewelry is next to useless and the main focus are "cash and guns" the rest is worthless

[Mistery14]

1 hour ago, Paenymion said:

Kinda skimmed the six pages so far...but in my opinion the issue is wildly varying ideas of what "a heavy text-based roleplay server"  actually means (this is what GTA World is advertised as).  For some it's to build up their gang and win pvp with a faint coating of being IC because "it's not me, it's my character" but in reality it's 100% OOC.  Let's not even pretend it isn't, there is so much OOC drama and stupidity over what should be IC things.  Plus how quickly people are to CK or otherwise NC a character just to skip prison so they can get back into the pvp on a new shell of a character.  On the other end it's the real hardcore roleplayers who want to be fully immersed and build a character and fully separate IC from OOC. Then there are all kinds in between, like people who just want to feel successful by farming money and driving expensive cars.   When you have all these wildly different ideas of what "heavy RP" is in one server, you're gonna get conflict.

 

 

This is a very good way to put it and is probably one of the reasons why there's such an apparent divide in the community. Everyone has their own personal definitions of Heavy RP. My personal take is that the server should have less rules around restricting RP scenarios and more defining and clarifying of their own server-specific standards for RP interactions between players, which are two different things.

 

For example on one server it might be fine to write a /me and punch immediately, but is everyone on the same page when they go read the rules of GTA W, where are those things written exactly? This is precisely an example of what server-specific RP standards are. It's defining how people should interact with one another in an RP setting.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Mistery14