To snitch or not to snitch?

[pateuvasiliu]

7 hours ago, Brofessor said:

That’s 4.28 incidents per 1000 players

Per year. Our crime rate is astronomically higher than 4 homicides a year. It's more like 40 a day.

4 homicides a year means 0.010 homicides a day.

Our crime rate is 4000 times higher than Los Angeles'. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by pateuvasiliu

[RedRover]

1 hour ago, Trupiano said:

 

This type of mentality is actually fucking hilarious because it shows either your just blindly lying to help your point or your so out of touch with reality that you actually think that's how the real world works. Here's a 2007 Nation Gang Center Bulletin on how gangs intimidate witnesses. In it, the author (A Assistant District Attorney from California) writes that it very much is an issue and happens constantly. Gang members do go after witnesses, they do go after jury members. There's a reason the justice system goes to such lengths to protect both groups and their identities. There is a very real threat to their safety. There is something valid to say about the amount of murders that happen on the server but, that can be counter by the fact murders/shootings are becoming a more common occurrence IRL anyways. More and more as established hierarchical gangs like gangster Disciples and traditional Bloods/Crip gangs have been targeted by law enforcement, the void that has been left is commonly filled by younger, more violent and less discipled gang members. 

 

That's all pretty pointless information though because if you just resist the urge to snitch or act like a cocky asshole 9/10 you'll be fine. It's hilarious that you think people actually stop and consider their "civic duty" and the fact that they might face legal consequences for not calling 911. Buddy, people are far more worried about getting their teeth kicked in in those situation then if the cops are gonna be upset they didn't call lmao. That's why all these CK's stand, people endlessly complain that the city is a warzone and then turn around and can not resist the urge to call the police.

 

 

 

So you’re basing your stance on an article with information from 2007? Seems a bit outdated, don’t you think? 
 

On a positive note I agree that unless you act like a cocky asshole and disregard all common sense, it’s a lot harder for these things to escalate to the point of a CK. Don’t call the cops right in front of the people who committed crime. Don’t walk through gang territory and make waves. A lot of these situations could’ve been avoided. However there are times where intimidation of said civilians goes way too far within the bounds of the server. People aren’t here to just be a criminal’s punching bag. That might be your idea of fun, but it’s not everyone’s. That’s not what the server should strive to reinforce either. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Brofessor

[Trupiano]

1 hour ago, Brofessor said:

So you’re basing your stance on an article with information from 2007? 
 

On a positive note I agree that unless you act like a cocky asshole and disregard all common sense, it’s a lot harder for these things to escalate to the point of a CK. Don’t call the cops right in front of the people who committed crime. Don’t walk through gang territory and make waves. A lot of these situations could’ve been avoided. However there are times where intimidation of said civilians was just way too far and uncalled for. 

 

Well documented information about gangs is hard to come by, especially up to date information. Gangs/Gang crime was a huge target of law enforcement in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Not just for prosecution but for gathering information for bulletins like the one I linked. But something happened here in the US around September 2001 and the peoples priorities shifted drastically. The people that were dedicated to compiling this type of information to teach law enforcement and the public about these issues  were forced to switch their priorities to focus to Counter Terrorism. 

 

There is some information out there like what I linked, but sadly far more common the information we receive is specific to certain cases and not a outline of overall gang behavior. Additionally gangs have changed as I mentioned in the reply you quoted. It seems like peoples understanding of gangs is tied primarily to the 80's and 90's when street gangs were increasingly hierarchical, people color banged and using a gun was the last resort. This was times when street gangs like the Gangster Disciples controlled entire parts of the country. That's not the times we live in or the times we are RPing. 

 

Today, in 2022 gangs are fragmented, small ultra violent groups. Its actually one of the reasons it's so hard to find in depth credible information's about modern street gangs. These groups don't seem to follow the same type of logic that people keep demonstrating on this thread. A modern 18 year old gangbanger is not thinking about the "heat" they'll receive if they attack you, what they think about is how they'll look weak if they don't. 

 

On the point we agree on, that's where I see this issue stemming from. Extortion CK's are different but for the majority of snitching CK's/retribution, your disregarding your characters life. It's a robotic mentality, I am a civilian so I do not commit crime, if I see a crime being committed I must report it or I'll have committed a crime. No one IRL thinks this way in these situations, no one is putting their "civic duty" over their own personal safety. That's laughable and you should be laughed at if you think that way. 

 

The only solution to this problem is two parted. 1. IFM needs to tell faction leaders to have their guys chill a little, that IFM expects less rushes towards murder and 2. Legal RPers need stop disregarding their characters life because of some OOC grunge against crime. This not some perfect world RP server where criminals get to do what they want, civi's get to do what they want and no one has to interact with each other unless they want too. GTAW is a realistic, gritty, dark interpretation of Southern California and all it has to offer, good and bad.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Trupiano

[pateuvasiliu]

24 minutes ago, Trupiano said:

This not some perfect world RP server where criminals get to do what they want

Except it kind of is, because the Admins do a very poor job of controlling the completely insane homicide rate ( Los Angeles'  is a thousand times smaller than ours ) for the sake of 'keeping things fun' ( For who? I doubt civilian roleplayers enjoy being eternal victims with barely any means to defend themselves )  or the amount of drive bys the (M) gang does.

And killing someone for calling the cops is DMing. There's a difference between a random citizen reporting a crime and your own trusted betraying you. Calling the cops isn't snitching.

Edited June 29, 2022 by pateuvasiliu

[Jeroen]

If we're going to allow the amount of ultraviolence that we see every day in Los Santos because "it happens in real life" we should at least a realistic response too.

 

• Set up programs to have CCTV cameras placed on every corner.
• Have cops carry bodycams.
• Allow detectives to go hard on criminals and criminal factions.
• Script actual 21st century forensic tools.
• Allow harsher proactive policing as a response to high crime.
• Have judges sign off on RICO more often.

 

For far too long the community is bending over backwards to cater to the illegal community's needs.

[NickXI]

(personally) speaking as an exclusively illegal roleplayer, civilians who call the police directly in front of the criminal they're snitching on kinda deserve whatever they get. If you called the cops on someone irl while someone was actively breaking the law in front of you, you'd probably get assaulted all the same. I think if a civilian wants to call the authorities they should wait until the threat leaves the situation for their own safety. If not, whatever happens to them is on them.

[Trupiano]

21 minutes ago, pateuvasiliu said:

Except it kind of is, because the Admins do a very poor job of controlling the completely insane homicide rate ( Los Angeles'  is a thousand times smaller than ours ) for the sake of 'keeping things fun' ( For who? I doubt civilian roleplayers enjoy being eternal victims with barely any means to defend themselves )  or the amount of drive bys the (M) gang does.

And killing someone for calling the cops is DMing. There's a difference between a random citizen reporting a crime and your own trusted betraying you. Calling the cops isn't snitching.

1. My last paragraph is directed towards people like you, I suggest you read it. 
 

2. DM is well defined in the rules and that ain’t it buddy. 

 

3. You can argue semantics all you want, having knowledge about criminal activity and reporting it to the police is snitching, don’t wanna face the consequences for snitching? Don’t snitch. It’s really fucking simple.

 

Until people like you get over their OOC foaming at the mouth at crime on the server, the issue your facing is not going to get better. Staff isn’t doing a poor job just because you don’t know how the rules apply and things aren’t going to change just because you cry you don’t understand the rules. 

[Coburn]

Snitches are for previous members who spill enough beans for your organisation to be broken up.

 

Calling the cops doesn't count.

[Trupiano]

7 minutes ago, Coburn said:

Snitches are for previous members who spill enough beans for your organisation to be broken up.

 

Calling the cops doesn't count.

What’s your evidence?

 

because the literal definition of “Snitching” is “to inform on someone”. 

 

Ya’ll are only arguing these semantics because you know admitting it’s snitching would immediately invalidate your argument. 

[Anubis]

Well, it depends what happened, where you call the police from and if the criminal in question knows about it. 

From what I've seen, from both being illegal and legal roleplayer, I once had some smartass calling the police against me right in front of me, so he got punched in the face for that, he wasn't killed for that, on the other end, some players witnessed a crime and called 911 in front of illegal group, and got punched/stabbed/shot to death.

When I play my legal character, if I can't do anything I stay out of it, take a far distance and call 911, just think about it as in real life, you probably won't call the police in front of troublemaker for him because he'll attack you. 

 

As of real life event that happened to me a few years ago - 

I sat at the park with some friends and some dude, really high on drugs joined us. Neither of us knew him and he started to talk noscene, at some point he fished out a pocket knife and started to play with it too close to a friend of mine, I said that I'm going to the toilet and called the Police when I was in a safe distance from him, they arrived within six minutes and arrested him.

 

So long story short as of the game point of view,

It depends with who you report, and if they know you did it. Some if not most of the players I've seen won't value their own character life nor others as they'd probable do in real life, with excuses such as "IM LOCOOO" and "my character had some bad childhood hehe".