To snitch or not to snitch?

[RedRover]

 “California’s violent crime rate decreased by 0.5% to 428 per 100,000 residents between 2019 and 2020”.

 

SOURCES: Authors’ calculation based on Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Report 1960–2002 and the California Department of Justice’s Criminal Justice Statistics Center, California Crimes and Clearances Files, 2003–2020.

NOTE: Violent crime includes homicide, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault; property crime includes burglary, motor vehicle theft, and larceny theft (including non-felonious larceny theft).

 

428 per 100,000 residents for violent crime as a whole. Yet people somehow justify the violence on this server because “Los Angeles is a violent place”. Yeah well we have a peak server population of under 1000. That’s 4.28 incidents per 1000 players. I’d say that anyone using the real world as a reference point to argue that escalation isn’t a problem on this server hasn’t really done their research.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Brofessor

[LuckyBastard]

Let's stick to the topic at hand here.

 

Being a snitch is informing the authorities of another person's criminal actions. Civilian or not, once you've told the police about someone's crimes to society, you have snitched. Civilians are expected to snitch and it's nothing wrong with that in a gangster's eyes, that's what they expect. The fact that generic civilians have no criminal backup makes them appear weak in the eyes of criminals. And just because a civilian has snitched on another criminal and got them in trouble for a crime they committed, doesn't mean that other gangsters will act on that person's behalf. Gangsters are selfish and typically pick and choose which snitches should be harmed or not. Being a snitch as a civilian can get you hurt by the person you've snitched on, but others who do crimes might just avoid you at all cost or just hide certain things from you because they don't want to be snitched on themselves.

[NickyW]

7 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

 “California’s violent crime rate decreased by 0.5% to 428 per 100,000 residents between 2019 and 2020”.

 

SOURCES: Authors’ calculation based on Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Report 1960–2002 and the California Department of Justice’s Criminal Justice Statistics Center, California Crimes and Clearances Files, 2003–2020.

NOTE: Violent crime includes homicide, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault; property crime includes burglary, motor vehicle theft, and larceny theft (including non-felonious larceny theft).

 

428 per 100,000 residents for violent crime as a whole. Yet people somehow justify the violence on this server because “Los Angeles is a violent place”. Yeah well we have a peak server population of under 1000. That’s 4.28 incidents per 1000 players. I’d say that anyone using the real world as a reference point to argue that escalation isn’t a problem on this server hasn’t really done their research.

 

I don't really think this is relevant at because we know that the crime rate is going to be higher per capita here. Per capita crime isn't really a reliable statistic with such lower (and varying) populations; that's why historians don't use per capita murder rates for old west communities. 

 

Not to mention it's a GTA server; there's going to be a disproportionately high number of criminals. 

 

Trying to make the conversation about the crime-rate is like saying that the sky is blue. It doesn't accomplish anything.

 

That being said, using the real world as a reference point is important because it tells us why these things happen; not just how often. And deciding how and when to kill someone is much more important than how often people actually get killed.

 

And the truth is? You don't really need a reason to kill someone. I don't really get the idea of "poor escalation" because every murder ever committed in history is poor escalation. That's why murder is illegal. If the poor escalation rule was actually followed, the only time people would ever kill someone is in self-defense.

 

The OOC focus should be on preventing death-matching. Actual death-matching. Random, senseless, non-RP violence.

 

As for escalation; maybe the problem is people doing things that they shouldn't do and getting killed for it.

Edited June 28, 2022 by NickyW

[Xaleya]

15 minutes ago, LuckyBastard said:

Let's stick to the topic at hand here.

 

Being a snitch is informing the authorities of another person's criminal actions. Civilian or not, once you've told the police about someone's crimes to society, you have snitched. Civilians are expected to snitch and it's nothing wrong with that in a gangster's eyes, that's what they expect. The fact that generic civilians have no criminal backup makes them appear weak in the eyes of criminals. And just because a civilian has snitched on another criminal and got them in trouble for a crime they committed, doesn't mean that other gangsters will act on that person's behalf. Gangsters are selfish and typically pick and choose which snitches should be harmed or not. Being a snitch as a civilian can get you hurt by the person you've snitched on, but others who do crimes might just avoid you at all cost or just hide certain things from you because they don't want to be snitched on themselves.

Criminals also need to know when to run and when to stay. If someone caughts you mid criminal act  like mid street the best course of actions like 911 going to occur anyway, realistically talking is to run away and ensure safety first.

[Moonsong]

27 minutes ago, NickyW said:

 

I don't really think this is relevant at because we know that the crime rate is going to be higher per capita here. Per capita crime isn't really a reliable statistic with such lower (and varying) populations; that's why historians don't use per capita murder rates for old west communities. 

 

Not to mention it's a GTA server; there's going to be a disproportionately high number of criminals. 

 

Trying to make the conversation about the crime-rate is like saying that the sky is blue. It doesn't accomplish anything.

 

That being said, using the real world as a reference point is important because it tells us why these things happen; not just how often. And deciding how and when to kill someone is much more important than how often people actually get killed.

 

And the truth is? You don't really need a reason to kill someone. I don't really get the idea of "poor escalation" because every murder ever committed in history is poor escalation. That's why murder is illegal. If the poor escalation rule was actually followed, the only time people would ever kill someone is in self-defense.

 

The OOC focus should be on preventing death-matching. Actual death-matching. Random, senseless, non-RP violence.

 

As for escalation; maybe the problem is people doing things that they shouldn't do and getting killed for it.

There are rules on what is and isn't reasonable escalation for a reason, not every player is a criminal roleplayer. Criminal roleplayers wouldn't exist without the legal roleplayers and vice versa, there would be no server. So things have to be fairly balanced for both so that they can both have fun and develop their characters instead of being gunned down for calling someone an idiot, or sneezing in the wrong tone. Nobody would have meaningful characters if criminals were allowed to dictate the narrative just because they felt like some target practice. 

 

Just as much much as there wouldn't be any meaningful illegal characters and a variety of illegal factions if all crime on a game that's literally about crime, was suffocated because a legal character didn't wanna die for doing something stupid or felt criminals had to abide by their moral standards.

 

There HAS to be balance, and some rules and guidelines so players know what may or may not be appropriate else it's just not fun for anyone.

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Moonsong

[MrUntouchable215]

1 hour ago, NickyW said:

 

Every time you comment, I feel more and more right. You have this habit of making yourself look incredibly unreliable and not credible. You keep babbling about how "I don't know what I'm talking about" but you've failed to assert any knowledge or useful information.

 

My education on "Chiraq" comes from the fact that I lived in south Chicago for four years, have a minor in Sociology, and have extensively studied and written on organized crime at the street level in modern America at a collegiate level lmao. Who the fuck is DJ akademik?

 

And what is the second half of your reply? It sounds like you're agreeing with me that there's a huge epidemic of gun violence in America's inner cities.

 

To avoid derailing the thread, I'll restate my original point for anyone who wants to genuinely discuss it:

 

GTAW has a problem with having too many killers; it has very little to do with why they decide to kill people.

 

 

I'm not gonna lie, I'm one of those killers but I completely agree. Everyone and their mom is strapped to the teeth and murders get committed with little to no RP after shock. People treat killings like scoring rather than something drastic that changes the entire trajectory of your life. That's why I refused to CK my previous char, granted I only got PK'd like once or so. If my homies CK'd me, I know they would perform some pretty dope RP but if it's some random? He's gonna merk my char and throw up a montage video. His injury RP will likely be NPCing a hospital visit and going about their day like normal. 

Point is, GTA W doesn't just have too many killers, there's entirely too much conflict RP and entirely too many stone-faced killers who aren't bothered by death. We need to do better fr

[mj2002]

1 hour ago, Moonsong said:

Couple of days ago I literally saw a report for dm because someone was shot outside of an open casino infront of witnesses just for snitching. If you were careless enough let someone witness your crime, honestly? That's on you not the witness. There needs to be some sort of rule clarification on killing players for 'snitching' because right now, it's pretty silly.

 

There was a clarification on this by IFM and this it was caused (or at least contributed to) everything to go in a downward spiral. You don't have to care about where you are when you commit a crime, only about who is around. Later on, they added the zones, but the damage to the community was already done.

[imjustlooking]

i personally believe we should make players /report for an admin to spectate before they call 911

[Barbary]

3 minutes ago, imjustlooking said:

i personally believe we should make players /report for an admin to spectate before they call 911

I feel like all that would do is get people to never call 911.

[Martyn]

1 hour ago, NickyW said:

 

I don't really think this is relevant at because we know that the crime rate is going to be higher per capita here. Per capita crime isn't really a reliable statistic with such lower (and varying) populations; that's why historians don't use per capita murder rates for old west communities. 

 

Not to mention it's a GTA server; there's going to be a disproportionately high number of criminals. 

 

Trying to make the conversation about the crime-rate is like saying that the sky is blue. It doesn't accomplish anything.

 

That being said, using the real world as a reference point is important because it tells us why these things happen; not just how often. And deciding how and when to kill someone is much more important than how often people actually get killed.

 

And the truth is? You don't really need a reason to kill someone. I don't really get the idea of "poor escalation" because every murder ever committed in history is poor escalation. That's why murder is illegal. If the poor escalation rule was actually followed, the only time people would ever kill someone is in self-defense.

 

The OOC focus should be on preventing death-matching. Actual death-matching. Random, senseless, non-RP violence.

 

As for escalation; maybe the problem is people doing things that they shouldn't do and getting killed for it.

 

I think it is very relevant, it's detrimental to the server and I've seen/heard plenty of friends who quit the server because it seemed like they couldn't catch a break. Trying to make the conversation about the crime rate being the same as saying the sky is blue is the same strawman argument as "People get killed for anything IRL". Hey, I appreciate you sharing your larp experience with us buddy, but I very much doubt you or any average civilian in America gets confronted with murder or extreme violent crimes on the daily, I bet not even monthly nor yearly. I don't think you've ever seen someone shot to shreds by fully automatic firearms in real life. Not on the TV, not on 4chan, but in person and it's a daily occurrence on GTA:W.

 

Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, it's a video game after all and we're here to have fun. That's were the real problem comes in, it seems like a lot of players (sadly, mainly illegal players) seem to forget that they're not the only ones playing on the server and their actions don't only impact the player they targeted with their amazing roleplay but it also creates a general narrative on the server that demotivates a lot of players. "Snitches" being killed over and over again is a direct result of this mindset, it's not about creating an engaging narrative between two parties. It's about the OOC player behind the character having a reason to escalate a situation and they'll do it regardless of development or storyline just because it's FUN, it's a video game, I can mess with someone within the rules. And I'm going to take that reason and do what this game is designed for! It's called Grand Theft Auto for a reason, go play second life if you don't like the crime!