To snitch or not to snitch?

[TonyMontana12]

39 minutes ago, NickyW said:

No I wouldn't; because I sold drugs in college so I know fairly well how it works and how common it is lmao.

Your ten bags don't count IKKLE MAN

[Mistery14]

This is why we can't have 10+ page long threads without having it locked and archived,

 

Why can't we argue without becoming emotional/taking things personally? That goes beyond examples, you can display examples and make points without doing the prior.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Mistery14

[TonyMontana12]

23 minutes ago, NickyW said:

 

> the leading cause of death is accidental, not homicide

 

This absolutely isn't important at all. I have no idea why you decided to include it. Comparing the murder rate to other crimes or the murder rate to other cause of deaths has nothing to do with the conversation. Nobody's saying murder is the most dangerous thing in the US. We're just saying it happens a lot.

 

The cities you listed had: 468, 397, and 309 murders last year.  That's a LOT of bodies. For any one person, you're very unlikely to get murdered if you live in the US, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen a lot.

 

Killing another human can be difficult. It can also be incredibly easy. 

 

Murders are in fact random occurrences that happen all the time. Chicago has almost a thousand shootings already this year, and it's not even July yet.  There's been 550+ road rage shootings this year. That's shooting somebody because they cut you off in traffic.  53 people were murdered a DAY last year in the United States.

 

I also hate this idea that everyone here brings up that criminals aren't dumb enough to get LOCKED UP FOR LIFE. Yes...they are. That's why almost one-percent of the country is in prison right now. 

 

Seriously, do your own research. Go to your own city (if you live in the US), and look up "man killed for stupid reason" or "man killed for no reason". 

 

People kill their siblings for stealing their video games. People kill eachother for not saying thank you. The dumber the reason, the more rare it is, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

@KinnyWynny

 

Oh, and one more thing.

 

Twenty-four people were shot in Chicago this weekend in separate incidents of gang violence. This weekend. From Friday to Sunday.

 

Where's the "biblical attention" at? Nobody I know has even heard that this happened. Did you know? Is it on national news? State news, even?

I see where you get the mentality from now, An "war in chiraq" fan ehhh? That's where all your education comes from right DJ akademiks videos??
Must say I did like the series myself, BUT it is litterarly considered a crisis the shit going on there, all out gang war, further shows you have NOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking idea, not even on the areas your focusing your points, they we're literarily considering sending in the military, housing crisis which splintered big gangs into small sets.

[Fancy Toothpaste]

5 minutes ago, NickyW said:

The issue is that there's too many characters in LS that are mentally/emotionally capable of murder; not that they're coming up with bad reasons to kill people. Basically; it's not an escalation problem, it's a portrayal problem.

 

While I agree first and foremost that it's an issue of portrayal, much of the poor escalation on this server is also caused by a sheer lack of in-character consequences for extreme acts of violence.

 

None of the real life risks associated with extreme acts of violence are present in GTAW so it's no wonder why people fail to roleplay realistic escalation. It's very unlikely that you will be caught for murder, so it becomes the easy, go-to solution for many people. Block-wiping used to be a huge problem in the gang scene specifically because it was so easy and carried little chance of getting caught.

 

In real life, the dude who murders the subway worker for putting too much mayo on his sandwich gets arrested and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility for parole. If that exchange were to happen in GTAW, he'd probably never be investigated. This is the crux of the issue.

[LuckyBastard]

I agree with what @NickyW has to say for the most part. People need to stop having these expectations that roleplay is some drawn out HBO Boardwalk Empire scene where the criminal relies on his/her brains more than their impulse. I'm looking at some of the replies from certain individuals (mainly the ones who oppose how criminals behave) and I'm genuinely confused on why you think a criminal who just caused harm to someone is going to be rational when they turn around and see another grown man (a civilian mind you) say, "I'm gonna call the cops!" and just bow down and try to bribe the guy. This isn't an action movie, more than likely he's going to get his dome knocked off for not minding his own business. I could see this happening if a person who doesn't normally commit criminal acts gets caught doing something illegal, but not a violent criminal, which most gang members are brought up to be.

 

And while we're at it, let's talk about poor escalation, I've literally witnessed civilian characters call someone a racial slur and then get brutally murdered. Then the victim starts reporting and saying the situation shouldn't of gotten violent. Let's talk about the lack of fear in some of these so called civilians and how some of them bring commotion to their front door by trying to portray the protagonist of GTA World, involving themselves in situations, spewing words at nefarious characters and wanting to be untouched while they're at it.

[TonyMontana12]

2 minutes ago, Fancy Toothpaste said:

The issue is that there's too many characters in LS that are mentally/emotionally capable of murder; not that they're coming up with bad reasons to kill people. Basically; it's not an escalation problem, it's a portrayal problem.

In all honesty this was an incredibly well way of putting it, but the people at the top of these factions doing such things really need to be shaken by the admins.
As I put it in my post, bit more understandable a 16 year old hoodlum commiting a crime for next to nothing, but the people who are roleplaying more mature characters involved in organised crime I.E the mc's need a BIG shaking and to realize their focus is drug and weapon distribution.... which gets harder to do when your killing people for extra heat for no reason constantly.

 

5 minutes ago, Fancy Toothpaste said:

In real life, the dude who murders the subway worker for putting too much mayo on his sandwich gets arrested and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility for parole. If that exchange were to happen in GTAW, he'd probably never be investigated. This is the crux of the issue.

Because ALLL of the witness's would be dead within the hour if it's left down to the current factions, fuck it kill the whole subway branch off, my homie didn't want mayo on his sandwich.

[Barbary]

Just to throw something else in here guys, but the people who actually cause these problems don't really check the forums often, especially this subsection. Going after one another is essentially preaching to the choir and then punching one of the other singers.

 

But from what I've seen lurking through forum posts is that there really just seems to be a lack of general consequences. Either because IC the PD/SD isn't capable or because OOC restrictions make it very difficult to actually enforce punishments for poor escalation or half-baked RP or what have you. I can't say I know which is which yet.

 

One thing to note is that this is actually very common in RP circles. Here, MMOs, freaking GMod even. When a player consistently and only plays one side of the fence (Crim/Civ/LEO) they tend to water things down more and more due to general fatigue. A guy on his 4th gangster is going to have some of the mentalities of his old characters bleed in. A cop who's had 3 different cop characters is going to have a harder time playing a rookie who isn't supposed to know what's going on. Some of this can be leant to winner's mentality, 

 

It's what it is. You can point to whatever news article, video or what have you. But the cause of this isn't realism, it's never been realism. It's the players behind the screen being unable, too tired or too jaded to want to put all the steps in. And as much as we like to shun that, I think we can all empathize with some level of fatigue.

[NickyW]

25 minutes ago, TonyMontana12 said:

I see where you get the mentality from now, An "war in chiraq" fan ehhh? That's where all your education comes from right DJ akademiks videos??
Must say I did like the series myself, BUT it is litterarly considered a crisis the shit going on there, all out gang war, further shows you have NOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking idea, not even on the areas your focusing your points, they we're literarily considering sending in the military, housing crisis which splintered big gangs into small sets.

 

Every time you comment, I feel more and more right. You have this habit of making yourself look incredibly unreliable and not credible. You keep babbling about how "I don't know what I'm talking about" but you've failed to assert any knowledge or useful information.

 

My education on "Chiraq" comes from the fact that I lived in south Chicago for four years, have a minor in Sociology, and have extensively studied and written on organized crime at the street level in modern America at a collegiate level lmao. Who the fuck is DJ akademik?

 

And what is the second half of your reply? It sounds like you're agreeing with me that there's a huge epidemic of gun violence in America's inner cities.

 

To avoid derailing the thread, I'll restate my original point for anyone who wants to genuinely discuss it:

 

GTAW has a problem with having too many killers; it has very little to do with why they decide to kill people.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by NickyW

[NickyW]

25 minutes ago, Fancy Toothpaste said:

 

While I agree first and foremost that it's an issue of portrayal, much of the poor escalation on this server is also caused by a sheer lack of in-character consequences for extreme acts of violence.

 

None of the real life risks associated with extreme acts of violence are present in GTAW so it's no wonder why people fail to roleplay realistic escalation. It's very unlikely that you will be caught for murder, so it becomes the easy, go-to solution for many people. Block-wiping used to be a huge problem in the gang scene specifically because it was so easy and carried little chance of getting caught.

 

In real life, the dude who murders the subway worker for putting too much mayo on his sandwich gets arrested and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility for parole. If that exchange were to happen in GTAW, he'd probably never be investigated. This is the crux of the issue.

 

I completely agree with you.

[Xaleya]

  

25 minutes ago, TonyMontana12 said:

In all honesty this was an incredibly well way of putting it, but the people at the top of these factions doing such things really need to be shaken by the admins.
As I put it in my post, bit more understandable a 16 year old hoodlum commiting a crime for next to nothing, but the people who are roleplaying more mature characters involved in organised crime I.E the mc's need a BIG shaking and to realize their focus is drug and weapon distribution.... which gets harder to do when your killing people for extra heat for no reason constantly.

 

Like this guy said. Big brain criminals who do all the weapon and drug trafficking  will be likely to stop dealing with groups attracting much heat because the heat will transfer to them. Also young idiotic gangsters attracting "too much police attention" on them would likely be killed by cops or get killed by fellow gangmembers / rivals (Which in the server there's no fear for death itself)

While minors in gang are a thing. All the stuff shared here by players saying "See how snitching ends bad and people gets murdered or robbed anywhere" is often done by criminals with the average of 20/25 years old after weeks or months of crime spree, not teens of 13.

Now.

Lets take a real case into context.
MS-13 Member Sentenced to Life in Prison for RICO Conspiracy and Brutal Murder of Two Teenagers | USAO-MA | Department of Justice

MS-13 gang member got life in prison with no palore. Because he stabbed violently to death (with other fellow gang members) two rival gang member being underage on a public park (Imagine like Vespucci PD/Little Seoul Park.

Due the stupid violent levels of LS. Probably half of the criminal gangs will go with perma jail due their over violent crimes.

So if you want to CK and PK over snitching, even calling 911 due not being actively involved, nor near you or any reason. Lets give your characters perma ck with no way to return to gang activities, if you return, you banned.

That's the most neutral solution to this.


Again it's the lack of consequences or proper escalation of consequences who makes this trouble ten tims worse.


Another case... 22 years old (when he was 17) killed a person and got 40 years of prison with no parole

Marin gang member sentenced to life in prison for brutal murder of two teens (mercurynews.com)

Edited June 28, 2022 by Xaleya