Remove "good cause" requirement for CCW, following SCOTUS ruling

[dollar]

Just now, Shokkoth said:

Are you saying illegal suppliers should be removed as they add more guns into the equation?

That's like me asking you if we should just completely remove guns. This subject of this topic, if accepted, would lead to anyone getting access to guns as opposed to the current state of the gun market. Getting even a shot to become a illegal firearms supplier is a rigorous process.

[Xaleya]

7 minutes ago, dollar said:

OK and do you think adding more guns into the equation, whether they would actually be used for illegal or legal purposes, would decrease the amount of crime and/or just murders occurring? Is your objective to arm all civilians so everyone can be a cop and combat crime? I'm not getting your point here.

Guns are like tools, regardless their usage purpose it won't change their existence.

I believe currently the CCW/PF/GC are okay within the situation and so it shouldn't be changed.

But if we want to deal with crime other areas should be focused as their main problem ain't the suppliers but the end user. 

There should be harsher punishments for people going apeshit with guns and committing crimes, which is the main issue.
That often is your typical "M" character with fast car wanting to rob you/your vehicle.

The main problem is related to people not being able to behave themselves.

[Shokkoth]

1 minute ago, dollar said:

That's like me asking you if we should just completely remove guns. This subject of this topic, if accepted, would lead to anyone getting access to guns as opposed to the current state of the gun market. Getting even a shot to become a illegal firearms supplier is a rigorous process.

'Anyone' already has access to guns. 'Anyone' can submit a PF application and have it accepted without an issue, unless they broke rules in the past. A lot of PF holders already conceal without having the CCW - my character has been walking around concealing for months without a CCW.

[RedRover]

16 minutes ago, dollar said:

OK and do you think adding more guns into the equation, whether they would actually be used for illegal or legal purposes, would decrease the amount of crime and/or just murders occurring? Is your objective to arm all civilians so everyone can be a cop and combat crime? I'm not getting your point here.

You do realize that a PF license and a CCW license are two separate things? Anyone can apply for a PF license right now without a “good cause” and go buy a gun. You’re not stopping guns from being added at all. It’s already happening. 
 

The good cause being discussed in this thread is strictly for the CCW license which dictates whether or not someone can legally conceal carry the weapon. Let’s not pretend that people don’t carry a weapon without a CCW already. It’s not stopping people from actually acquiring the gun though. All you need for that is a PF license. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Brofessor

[dollar]

3 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

You do realize that a PF license and a CCW license are two separate things? Anyone can apply for a PF license right now without a “good cause” and go buy a gun. You’re not stopping guns from being added at all. It’s already happening. 
 

The good cause is strictly for the CCW license which dictates whether or not someone can legally carry the weapon. Let’s not pretend that people don’t carry a weapon without a CCW already. It’s not stopping people from actually acquiring the gun though. All you need for that is a PF license. 

 

4 minutes ago, Shokkoth said:

'Anyone' already has access to guns. 'Anyone' can submit a PF application and have it accepted without an issue, unless they broke rules in the past. A lot of PF holders already conceal without having the CCW - my character has been walking around concealing for months without a CCW.

 

OK, if the good cause gets dropped and most of the server population is conceal carrying, what do you think will happen? Anybody who wants an extra gun will be confident in going out and being able to rob anyone they see, because they will most likely have a firearm. The current "good cause" requirement puts a in-character risk for carrying a legal gun concealed with just a PF license and therefore, in my opinion, decreased the amount of firearms gained from robberies.

[pateuvasiliu]

18 minutes ago, dollar said:

OK and do you think adding more guns into the equation, whether they would actually be used for illegal or legal purposes, would decrease the amount of crime

This is a very doomer attitude. " Let our civilians be targeted and preyed upon because giving them means to defend themselves won't work "

Except it does work. I can show you countless videos of active shooters being shot down by someone with a CCW, but the media doesn't want you to hear about those cases.

If you took 50 random players from Davis and 50 random players from Hawick, I guarantee you that the first group has twice as many guns. And that's absolutely an issue that needs to be addressed, because in this city if you're unarmed you're just a victim waiting to be robbed or kidnapped.

It's not  the civilians' fault that the legal system is a joke and 99 out of 100 shooters get away with it.

Edited June 23, 2022 by pateuvasiliu

[marbella mondays]

This should be a suggestion honestly, but sure, if California goes by it then let's do it.

 

 

For people complaining about  more  guns on the server, that logic  makes no sense because you need a PF anyways to even get a CCW, so the "more guns" argument makes 0  sense.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Morrigan

[RedRover]

9 minutes ago, dollar said:

 

 

OK, if the good cause gets dropped and most of the server population is conceal carrying, what do you think will happen? Anybody who wants an extra gun will be confident in going out and being able to rob anyone they see, because they will most likely have a firearm. The current "good cause" requirement puts a in-character risk for carrying a legal gun concealed with just a PF license and therefore, in my opinion, decreased the amount of firearms gained from robberies.

Theres already an OOC policy about abusing a PF license for illegal purposes. It has been punished more than once. If you ask me, the punishment should be more harsh. But regardless, that’s already frowned upon. So your first point is a non-issue. 
 

Second, you’re naive if you think more than half the server isn’t conceal carrying already without a CCW. They just haven’t been caught. This so called risk? People don’t give a shit. 
 

This entire problem lies with portrayal and management not enforcing REAL punishments for people who break the rules surrounding weapons. We wouldn’t have this issue if people actually got punished with more than a verbal warning or a 30 minute ajail for abusing a PF license / improper escalation with a CCW. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Brofessor

[dollar]

5 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

Theres already an OOC policy about abusing a PF license for illegal purposes. It has been punished more than once. If you ask me, the punishment should be more harsh. But regardless, that’s already frowned upon. So your point is a non-issue. 

My point has nothing do with PF abuse. I'm stating that this suggestion, if accepted, would increase the amount of people carrying firearms which would then increase the amount of robberies as most people will be armed and in return will earn you a free gun. Your point isn't relevant to what I'm talking about.

 

Your second point about me being naive? If you carry a firearm without a permit to carry it concealed, you're not particularly a "legal character". If you discharge that firearm in a case of self-defense outside of your property, you're liable to being charged with much more compared to a CCW holder.

Edited June 23, 2022 by dollar

[Shokkoth]

  

9 minutes ago, dollar said:

 

 

OK, if the good cause gets dropped and most of the server population is conceal carrying, what do you think will happen? Anybody who wants an extra gun will be confident in going out and being able to rob anyone they see, because they will most likely have a firearm. The current "good cause" requirement puts a in-character risk for carrying a legal gun concealed with just a PF license and therefore, in my opinion, decreased the amount of firearms gained from robberies.

Having played a character who concealed a pistol for about 3-4 months without possessing a CCW, I can tell you that the risk isn't that big as long as you're not a clown. And I think it's safe to assume that a lot of other PF holders also conceal without a valid permit. If you aren't stupid it's very easy to not get in trouble. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen - which is the whole point of CONCEALING.