Money

[croozerdog]

4 hours ago, Power said:

There so many issues with the economy and a lot of them are self inflicted it really doesn't make sense. Tell me why does it make sense to give every new character created 200k but then implement things like price controls on the most expensive assets so their prices can't adjust as the money supply on the server grows? So we are just giving away money to players but then tell another group of players they can't sell their assets over X amount. Money is perpetually become less valuable so these players just hoard houses because they wont get the price they want. because of the rules. 

The issue isn't the grind jobs. The jobs that people fear people will grind like hunting and fishing no one is grinding them because of the caps on assets and other restrictions. You don't regulate an economy with just top down control. You have to create incentives through certain jobs, taxes, etc. 

After reading the awesome constructive comments here I honestly think the biggest problem is the starter cash and the fact that NOTHING drains cash. Admins keep finding out weird "solutions" and OOC regulations over your half-IC cash, rather than just taxing the heck out of expensive stuff. I think the lack of tax is even worse than the weird unproportial prices of goods and services.

As soon as people actually NEED money to keep their stuff, they'll think of different and creative ways to make the cash, making factions and engaging with the community.

[Xaleya]

16 minutes ago, croozerdog said:

Yeah I wouldn't say IMEX still counts as grinding, the RPG system behind it sure, but you're still part of a trucking faction basically. I agree though, I'm not a faction player myself, I love being more of a background character.

imex isnt a faction lol

[Engelbert]

The problem I see is people not sticking to their concepts. What I see is script jobs defining their characters on the way.

Truckers, miners in the past, fishermen, people working in 24/7 three hours a day. An LTD clerk standing behind counter all day isn't gonna get 4000, per hour.

If people wanna roleplay having that job, they shouldn't roleplay having all those money from the shifts, not because they can't have it, but because that system is flawed from the start. What matters here, is roleplay. Driving a van from point A to point B and unload some crates, honestly isn't roleplay. How does your character know what goods they are moving and where? So if people wanna roleplay all their money, they earned like that, first...close the chapter on your trucking or 24/7 clerk story and start a brand new character with said money being in their backstory. The system is needed per se, for people who wanna roleplay investors of sorts, cause building a company from the start without any funds would take lot of time. And we are not here to level a character up from 0 to 100. This is modern world roleplay, where you don't need super strength to wield that doomsday's barbarian axe or something. IF you have those money use them, just have a character tailored for such portrayal.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Engelbert

[mj2002]

On 6/16/2022 at 10:57 PM, croozerdog said:

After reading the awesome constructive comments here I honestly think the biggest problem is the starter cash and the fact that NOTHING drains cash. 

 

There are things that drain cash. Buying a new car is probably the biggest one. That, and players going inactive. But at present, they are outweighed by the starter money.

[Tangsta]

8 hours ago, mj2002 said:

 

There are things that drain cash. Buying a new car is probably the biggest one. That, and players going inactive. But at present, they are outweighed by the starter money.

What also drains cash for a good cause is tipping hard workers like cab drivers/good mechanics/bartenders/strippers. Donating to community service centers. Buying actual items like jewelry/tools/accessories. But we need more stuff. Most importantly we need to be able to buy clothing for separate prices not just 100$ for whatever.

[K0range4]

Some folks here have made great points, and I agree with many of them. I might have a unique perspective here as someone who very recently joined the server and just ended my initial “paycheck” bonuses. A lot of it is based on how it felt as a new person jumping in as an independent illegal roleplayer -

 

I appreciated the initial cash boost allowing me more time to roleplay. While I did do some garbage and trucker job grinding it wasn’t too bad to get myself some starting cash. The trucking job in particular actually worked really well for my character and I’ve included it in my roleplay and character story. It’s opened up some interesting possibilities for me as an independent van driver. We’ll see where it goes in the future.

 

I am, however, very fortunate I’m playing as a poor character fresh out of jail. It’s rough out here on these streets and if I needed to really grind a ton of money I may have given up and maybe created a homeless alt lol. The initial cost of customization can be tough, especially if you are Rping a character with a lot of tattoos. Some of those suckers are $5000 a piece. Same with the “mask” that is my character’s facial hair. $5000 for that, and I lose it every time I die. Despite being an illegal Rper my character is still warming up back to the streets and hasn’t really done much dirt yet. Except of course, the capital crime of being Hispanic in Rancho. He’s not a sureno, nor affiliated with any current gang, but that hasn’t stopped random people (I’m assuming enemy gangs) gunning me down the street with no roleplay. So losing my mask several times has hurt.

 

It’s also felt like a weird hardcore survival game at times with the limited storage capabilities. I can’t store any weapons or drugs in my car and despawn it. I mean that’s OK I guess, people can steal from my car and it’s at my own risk to put things in there. I can buy better locks and alarms and whatnot, but it felt weird not being able to despawn it and log out. I get the IC risk, but my car being there when I am “offline” (which is an OOC trait) and being able to get broken into felt weird. So did the motel rooms not being unique. I hide something in my hotel room but another person who happens to be renting that room can take items? I tested this too, and left a baseball bat, some sprunk, cigarettes, and other misc items in my room. I logged in one day to all of it gone. A buddy of mine made a deal for some drugs and hid them in a very unique spot, we’re talking high up in a secluded area and RP’d where no one could have IC knowledge of them without him specifically showing the spot (and we thought OOC knowledge too, for that matter), and yet he logged in the next day and they were gone.

 

Knowing I’m in a dangerous neighborhood I made an IC contact and we eventually warmed up enough to discuss a weapon sale. This character had one gun for sale, a pistol with limited ammo, for $40,000. Well, I couldn’t afford that at the time. Not to mention that’s nearly a quarter of my starting money, so instead I opted for the “cheaper” knife for $9000. I had it for a cool couple hours before I was, again, gunned down in the street from a block away with no RP. I know I can report and request refunds but this character was too far way for me to see a name or mask ID, and my /report went nowhere. It’s a strange feeling wishing I had been robbed instead, at least that makes for some good follow up RP.

 

I was eventually able to find a house in some projects for sale by the server, for $45,000. I was very happy because it feel like a stroke of pure luck, but at the same time it also felt super weird that this whole unit cost only a touch more than a pistol. It's an alright property but not the ideal I wanted for my character, and yet in my "ideal" neighborhood I never see anyone there despite all the houses being owned. Maybe different timezone? Still at least I have something.

 

So all in all it’s been a sort of “positives and negatives” sort of experience. As a new player my biggest struggles have been how much you lose during a death, and storage issues. It’s felt particularly crummy since none of these deaths have been my fault. I’m not out there robbing and pillaging the streets or putting myself in dangerous situations (other than living in a high crime area). My character has been playing it low and slow and just trying to adjust back into the outside world, and he’s gotten street-sweeped a few times. I expected to get robbed or maybe beat up on or something, but not just straight up mowed down rofl. I’m thankful to the server money for allowing me to have the opportunity to buy a half decent vehicle that fits my roleplay and outfit him with the clothes and tattoos he would logically have, and repay my hospital bills. As for the storage thing, I don’t know… I’d say I’d want to be able to despawn my car with drugs and weapons in it. I willing to accept the IC risk of driving with illegal equipment and it being stolen or impounded by police. I don’t like the OOC risk of just having to leave my spawned vehicle in game free for the picking without any chance to react. Alternatively if there were cheap storage units or small warehouses available to rent or buy that were unique to my character, that would be a positive as well.

 

The server economy being what it is, I don’t know what the solution is. If an economy wipe were to happen I’d hope players, especially new ones, are at least were given vouchers or some way to establish the skeletal structure of assets their character should have – something for mobility, a place to put their stuff down without fear of it being taken away (or at least, less fear), and a place to lay their head.

[peasoup]

7 minutes ago, K0range4 said:

Same with the “mask” that is my character’s facial hair. $5000 for that, and I lose it every time I die. Despite being an illegal Rper my character is still warming up back to the streets and hasn’t really done much dirt yet. Except of course, the capital crime of being Hispanic in Rancho. He’s not a sureno, nor affiliated with any current gang, but that hasn’t stopped random people (I’m assuming enemy gangs) gunning me down the street with no roleplay. So losing my mask several times has hurt.

 

For that, at least, there might be a solution! Have you tried this? You can wear your mask at a clothing store, while buying clothes, and save your outfit while wearing the mask. The mask should be permanent on that outfit whenever you change back to it, even if you don't have the mask item in your inventory.

[Coburn]

On 6/16/2022 at 8:34 AM, mj2002 said:

 

An economy reset is only really viable with a server reset. I don't think players are interested in this at the moment.

 

Repricing vehicles is always possible, but nearly everyone underestimates the complexity of this. There is a reason the current mix is weird, because it is extremely difficult to come to an agreement on how to adjust the system. Everyone agrees it is weird now, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees on a single solution. There are many variables and OOC considerations that need to be taken into account. Some examples, players prefer fast vehicles compared to irl, vehicles do not depreciate over time, compared irl. Maintenance isn't a chore and an expense for older vehicle (models) like it is in real life. Vehicle comfort and quality are mostly irrelevant in game, where this is extremely important in real life. There are numerous other reasons beyond just the basics of realistic car model age, price, rarity, etc. This has to be looked into first, before repricing any vehicles becomes relevant.

 

As for the original topic. Beyond a server reset, the next best thing is to start balancing things slowly towards the middle ground again. The easiest way to resolve this (slowly) is to reduce starter payments somewhat. $200.000 is too much and causes inflation. 

 

Considering that any decent car that's worth having is about the 100k mark, I'd say $200.000 isn't too bad.

[K0range4]

15 hours ago, peasoup said:

 

For that, at least, there might be a solution! Have you tried this? You can wear your mask at a clothing store, while buying clothes, and save your outfit while wearing the mask. The mask should be permanent on that outfit whenever you change back to it, even if you don't have the mask item in your inventory.

 

Now that is a real good tip. Thank you!

[goddessoflife]

L&A, PM me if you want it unarchived.