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croozerdog

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2 minutes ago, croozerdog said:

I mean RS Haul was the best meme of the MTA server.
Seriously though, I'd love a more harsh economy. Brings jobs for taxi drivers, landlords, criminals, cops, legal factions. I know we wont get it on GTAW but I can always try complaining haha

It was a fun starter job, and we pretty much got a trucking job on here which earns a lot too, if you grind it, so things aren't really that different. Whilst I'd love a harsher economy, unless they wipe majority of assets, you won't come far.. because people are simly far too rich for it. At some rate people were earning even up to 700k per week with mechanic jobs and nothing was done to it until last year lmfao. I also think if the economy was harsher, that people would get more unique to earn the money, rather than have boring jobs as you see now, with some exceptions of course.

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1 minute ago, Timzii said:

It was a fun starter job, and we pretty much got a trucking job on here which earns a lot too, if you grind it, so things aren't really that different. Whilst I'd love a harsher economy, unless they wipe majority of assets, you won't come far.. because people are simly far too rich for it. At some rate people were earning even up to 700k per week with mechanic jobs and nothing was done to it until last year lmfao. I also think if the economy was harsher, that people would get more unique to earn the money, rather than have boring jobs as you see now, with some exceptions of course.

I guess that slowly implementing it and accepting that curretly existing characters are very rich could work, just waiting for them to make new chars or get CKed. Stat trans-.. I mean "name changes" could ruin this though.
I would personally happily give some or all of my assets back if it means a semi-realistic economy update, but yeah, little chance everyone would agree on that.

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I don’t really care about grinders. Never have. People are going to grind whether it’s a script job or player-owned job. It’s still grinding no matter which way you look at it. Your script money is still growing. Some people fold that into their character development. It’s not wrong to want to earn more money. RPQM exists to enforce against people portraying characters that misuse those assets. Report them. 
 

In terms of the economy? I wish we could have a middle ground between real-life and what we have now. I think we’re too far on the side of being too easy to earn money. People get lazy. People have no need to be creative on ways to earn their money. It’s simply too easy to get. Why venture out when you don’t need to? On some levels I think the ease of earning money inhibits creativity and increases laziness. 
 

On the other side, it shouldn’t be so hard to earn money that it feels like you’re coming home to work a second job just to play a video game.  There should be a grind, but not so much as to discourage people from even playing. There’s a reason video games build a “grind by design” as it’s meant to keep people’s interest in reaching the end-game. I’m sure we’ve experienced games where cheat codes get us exactly what we want and the game becomes less interesting much faster. I think the GTAW economy now is our version of cheat codes. We just get too much money for doing nothing. 
 

There needs to be a balance and I think our economy needs to slide a little back towards the middle between real life and believable for our server continuity/economy. Easier said than done, but it’d be better than what we have now in my opinion. 

Edited by Brofessor
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3 hours ago, Timzii said:

Economy has been pretty much in shambles since 2020 if not even a bit earlier. Has anything been done to it, to adjust inflation for crazy paying jobs? Not really. Have more restrictions been put in place on what you can spend your hard earned money on? Yes. Did it work? No. 

A little update to the economy was done this year (or around december of last year) making the cash to actual item (that is why now you see it in your inventory, for those who recently came back/did not understand why) and forced to roleplay the cash on you without limits, but that is it. This update did not change things,  at least for me. I think was big on paper but came out a waste of time. Restriction were put on place because people used to flip apartments or rent a single house to different people etc, people say that it is easy to earn cash but before these restrictions were applied was easier as fuck. 

 

3 hours ago, croozerdog said:

VERY good point on the RPQM

Yet again I have to say that RPQM is there because the playerbase made it possible (not in a good way). RPQM is there because people do zero research on concepts, cultures and ideas they try to apply on their character but fail. Also is there to report users who (i wonder why) fail to roleplay their assets. You have probably heard or noticed of twenty years old girls who are truckers,  business owners, own apartments and multiple cars. Rpqm is there to correct these dumb players. 

 

If you still need an answer, this is my take on cash:

 

If you start a new character you prolly need cash to buy assets that are needed to roleplay your character. We can go from a rusty car to a mid class one, we can go from renting an apartment or buy one. You need cash and the 200k starter money is helping you (can literally buy an apartment and a car), now what you earn mid game is just an extra. You can use that cash to buy more assets if your character development allows you to. For example my poor character can go from a shit hole to a mid class apartment or why not a mansion, but it is all up to character development. It is something that people understand after some time they play. In less words you have to ignore things 

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I am a hypocrite, I earned most of my money through roleplay and rather than just sitting in the store, I actually watched ads and offered what we have to people through that system. So I want to use my assests and my money, cause I invested time and roleplay into obtaining them.

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I feel like a big problem with the economy right now is that... Money is barely taken IC on the server. On GTA World, money is very commonly treated as OOC. Even the admins and Nervous encourage it. Money on GTA World isn't really used to reflect your character's financial status, but rather to help you portray your character. And that, I think is a problem.


90% of the players on the server don't treat their character's money as IC. It's not uncommon to see characters, especially legal faction characters with six or seven figures of wealth in their bank, but the character is still portrayed as being poor. Or the other way around, it's common to sometimes see characters with big apartments/houses and nice cars, but they have no money in their bank, yet they aren't roleplaying bankruptcy.

In my opinion... You shouldn't be allowed to do this. If we want a good working economy, Money should be kept IC always. Meaning... If you have six figures in your bank, then your character IC'ly has six figures of money in their bank and your character should be portrayed as middle class. Likewise if you have no money in your bank, then you should be forced to roleplay bankruptcy. You shouldn't be allowed to powergame your money as OOC funds and then proceed to roleplay your character's financial status as something else than what your IC bank account reflects.

Obviously tho, something like this would probably never work on this server. Unless we wipe everyone's wealth and assets, start fresh, and rework a lot of the economy including job salaries, minimum wage, housing prices, vehicle prices, etc. Something like this will require a fresh start. Simply forcing everyone to suddenly start roleplaying their cash properly is going to cause chaos and probably cause way more problems than benefits. And since I'm pretty sure 99% of us are against a full server wipe, especially after 5 years the server has existed, I highly doubt this whole OOC money situation will ever be changed.

Money on GTA World is forever going to be considered OOC funds to help you portray your character. That's why the game gives you so much free money and why asset transfers and name changes exist. Money on this server purely exists to help you portray your character, not to actually reflect your character's wealth on an IC level. It is what it is.

 

Edited by ScarletRose
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10 hours ago, bncal said:

A little update to the economy was done this year (or around december of last year) making the cash to actual item (that is why now you see it in your inventory, for those who recently came back/did not understand why) and forced to roleplay the cash on you without limits, but that is it. This update did not change things,  at least for me. I think was big on paper but came out a waste of time. Restriction were put on place because people used to flip apartments or rent a single house to different people etc, people say that it is easy to earn cash but before these restrictions were applied was easier as fuck. 

 

Yet again I have to say that RPQM is there because the playerbase made it possible (not in a good way). RPQM is there because people do zero research on concepts, cultures and ideas they try to apply on their character but fail. Also is there to report users who (i wonder why) fail to roleplay their assets. You have probably heard or noticed of twenty years old girls who are truckers,  business owners, own apartments and multiple cars. Rpqm is there to correct these dumb players. 

 

 

This is very true there’s been eighteen to twenty year old truckers and even club owners that own multiple apartments and cars behind 0 character development

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I think it has been established, that we don't want 1:1 realism scale here, cause if we had that. I'd have to spend 12 hours 3 times a week rping working to get some scraps. I earn my money IC, not through trucking or other grinding methods. I earn them through interactions and roleplay, so I can and I will consider them IC.

Edited by Engelbert
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I personally think character creation&Customization should be adapted in some way.

 

Looking at the economy, fuelling 200k into it without that in any way being connected to the actual money circles is problematice (and it's safe to assume we have more new characters coming in all the time than 2 years ago still!).

 

On the other hand speaking of rp and characters, 200k, while a generous sum, are not enough to customize a character for all levels (of social standing).

This is mostly defined by prices, but then again these have been pretty static (or for cars, fully static) for years- hurray, this means we have the option to tweak the numbers in the game design and it should actually have an effect!

 

To clarify further what I mean before wrong assumptions are drawn:

The flat 200k a new character gets to customize, despite being a fairly generous amount that leads to every newly created character having a massive impact on the economy as they'll create money faster than almost every big job worker in town, fails to give these new characters the option to really pick their lifestyle fully.

 

This is not so much caused by the amount characters receive but by the prices: As prime example I'd like to pick out low end sedans which irl you can get used for a few 100 or 1000 dollar, whereas in the game, with cars outside of the rental-newbie-tree being priced way above this, you can't get a crappy car for low money.

The same counts for other stuff than cars: Many a character concepts includes carrying a firearm, legal or illegal.

Not to speak of homes, let's just assume new players are happy to just play at first (I at least was) and aren't even that demanding once the basics are met (and there's motel rooms if it comes to the worse after all which however again drain money quickly).

 

Long story short, new characters, due to this design of artificial and in parts hardcoded (cars!) prices, need money, not just a handful.

The current character design takes this in account by equipping new characters with the known amount of 200k. Which then has a significant impact on the overall economy as, when the player's active, this creates money faster than most jobs, may it be truck grinding or senator, can create.

 

Conclusion:

The current game design for character creation has the massive downside that the freedom to customize a character to a degree impacts the overall economy.

This is also spreading into areas where prices are not set by the game- new characters due to this design have more buying power than many seasoned veterans who might have hard working jobs ic even, but don't come up to producing 5k per played hour through this as a new character, regardless their background, can.

 

While this was less of an issue in the 2019-2020 aera with a significantly lower amount of players, allowing staff to take a greater impact with single sanctions too (on the overall economy), it's safe to assume without current numbers even that there's more new characters played all the time than it was the case when the design was originally invented.

This should, naturally, be taken in account.

The same counts not just for money influx but just as much, as mentioned, for eventual sanctions:

In 2019, pm taking a Pariah off someone for being unable to handle it might have been a big deal.

 

Nowadays, no one will care (unless it was Carry's or anyone's known one to give people a laugh), and definitely it won't impact the general wealth level displayed on the server if a single character gets stripped off their gadgets.

There's a douzen other ones ready to fill in (same as on the low end social spectrum).

 

Solution:

As established, there's two things we can improve on mostly:

Character customization, and its impact on the ingame economy.

Naturally, the former should be enhanced and reworked in a way that is not relying on flat cash (to reduce the need for new characters for this).

 

The main levers here are the things that really everyone needs (or thinks to need):

Guns&Cars.

 

I have no insight in the price development of (illegal) firearms as I didn't dig into the supply system so I'll not talk out of my arse here, I do not know where the root lays but:

Realistically, firearms (illegal ones) should be available for relatively low prices on a wide scale if you know someone that knows someone.

I hear of people who pay mid range 5-figure-sums for firearms, however.

That implies there's either too much gatekeeping, too much profiteering from illegal factions distributing, or again these illegal factions being forced to overcharge by default game design (as mentioned- don't ask me).

 

For cars, it's easier to tell: The hard-coded prices at the dealerships cause the bad balance that forces new characters to get 200k to be able to buy one.

Specially for low end cars this makes zero sense.

And the real flaw in the design shows itself here: The system, if I really want that, also DOES allow me to buy nothing but a sports car and a gun, when it's clearly established that this is not the idea.

 

tl;dr,

rework hardcoded prices to adjust to the fact we have a much bigger playerbase and things work differently,

make character customization less dependent on money to give players freedom to get basic equipment (car&gun) for low figure prices (realism!!!1111),

and then cut starter character money to have new characters not impact the overall economy anymore.

Exact numbers to tweak will require own topics.

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Honestly, in my opinion, an economy reset is needed. Before that, the admin team would need to decide how to re-price vehicle such that low end vehicles and high end vehicles have appropriate prices instead of the weird mix that currently exists, same with houses/apartments and all the other items that are available on the server. If money is OOC then you might as well give everyone unlimited money to do their roleplay as they bid.

 

On Owl, I really liked the house and vehicle tokens and I think it could definitely work here too. Then we can decrease the $200k starting money to something like $20k.

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