Defined Poor Escalation as a proper rule/violent character potrayal

[Orpheus49]

I think it's no secret that Poor Escalation is a phrase commonly used in the server and in reports. But as it stands, they feel more like unspoken rules to be in the know, rather than a well defined part of server rules

As it stands there are some deathmatch rules that are as reads

4) Deathmatching
Killing another player without or with poor reason to do so. This also includes you provoking others, followed by performing aggressive actions such as shooting or killing and (or) the provoked party ending up dead.
• Calling a player names for them to come after you so you can shoot them.

These help put in rules in relation to when someone ends up dead. However there is much more instances of "poor escalation" where someone doesn't die, and where a level of violence used seems to be borderline parody over roleplay for the situations presented.

Far too often, people resort to violence for things that can simply be overlooked or even just addressed at a later date. Far to often it feels like fists get thrown for things that don't make for a fun story but rather an inconvenience for the victim.

There are many examples from my own experiences and some other instances I've seen that can list as to what feels like genuine Poor Escalation of general violence and violent character potrayal. Here are just a few

Ex:
-Someone insults a stranger either calling em a whore/or Fa**ot or whatever and when said person insults back or bothers to speak back at all. they take this as reason to start swinging or get out of their car to fight a pedestrian and/or turn it into a kidnapping (this one is way too common. It feels like an excuse to give your character a reason to fight)

-Someone sees a stranger park in their neighborhood on a bike and they tell em they wanna take it for a joyride. When they of course deny, they take this as reason to beat them to commit gta for a joyride rather than needing the bike for an actual ic reason. (This seems like robbery rules exepct instead of petty cash on the first person you see,  its a vehicle of the first person you see)

-someone tries recording another in a vulnerable position (overdosing, getting arrested) and when they try to stop em from recording either by pushing them away, or moving away, they see this as an attack and get their gang at a later date to cause a beating, escalating it to a degree where they wouldn't realistically care.

-Someone finds a girl working a corner that is far from their gangs historical claimed neighborhood and they see this as reason to kidnap the woman, beating her, and tell her she works for them now and they will kill her otherwise (despite having no real reason to want or a way to track funding)
 

 

And that's just a few instances I've felt the Escalation and character potrayal made no sense where people would realistically not go to these degrees of violence and often it doesn't lead to fun conflicts but rather just inconvenient sudden fights when people are just looking to rp something else entirely.

What is defined as a character understandably going violent? When does someone ask to get attacked?

 

and on the flipside, when is it an excuse to start a fight where it is otherwise unnecessary and unwarranted.

My opinions are likely to differ as to what is just characters being their agressive selves and what's poor escalation. Seeing some for of discussion would definitely help the admins see what is desired

Either way, outlines from server leadership would serve to better define what is poor escalation and what is justified violence of any degree, not just lethal forms

Edited June 6, 2022 by Orpheus49

[Rubbish]

Can the robbers be adressed that kill the victim at the end of the robbery for the not so subtle reason of "they saw my face". As well?

And how cringe it is?

[Orpheus49]

Just now, Rubbish said:

Can the robbers be adressed that kill the victim at the end of the robbery for the not so subtle reason of "they saw my face". As well?

And how cringe it is?

 

That would be deathmatch. 

[Cindy]

I have seen time and again very poor escalation in a lot of situations, which then escalates further and creates IC problems from seemingly nothing or unjustified and unrealistic reasons.

It would be great if the rules on poor escalation could have more detail and clarity, however it is a case by case basis but it really does happen time and time again.

 

I even reported a party once for terrible escalation (Beating up my friend in a strip club for slowly pulling me away from some bikers who were flirting with me all of 5 minutes, resulting in him getting his head glassed in a strip club toilet, with numerous people seeing the guy dragged inside, his ribs kicked in by all of them and then both of us thrown out the club. For no reason other then the gang wanting to create an escalation out of nothing.)

but the handling admin deemed it was fine.

 

Of course there are always IC reasons for escalation to happen, the problem is a lot of players like to jump straight to violence/stabbing/shooting rather then verbal, in my opinion because its a GTA game and the "mechanics" of GTA sometimes lead to a few players wanting to punch/shoot others, or as you mentioned as a very rare example, steal a car.

[Orpheus49]

11 minutes ago, Cindy said:

I even reported a party once for terrible escalation (Beating up my friend in a strip club for slowly pulling me away from some bikers who were flirting with me all of 5 minutes, resulting in him getting his head glassed in a strip club toilet, with numerous people seeing the guy dragged inside, his ribs kicked in by all of them and then both of us thrown out the club. For no reason other then the gang wanting to create an escalation out of nothing.)

but the handling admin deemed it was fine.

 

 

Just playing devils advocate. You can argue they felt its their little playground, and they have reason to believe they can do anything. And basically run the place

 

However, at the same time that level of trouble from essentially nothing seems way too excessive and not fun for the people involved.

 

To me, good escalation has to further the plot and be fun for all parties

[DasFroggy]

On 6/6/2022 at 4:51 AM, Orpheus49 said:

To me, good escalation has to further the plot and be fun for all parties

 

This has always been my stance. I don't care if someone shoots my character, and I'll typically have my character go down after the first hit, because to the surprise of noone, bullets really hurt.

 

But, too many people treat this as an FPS or GTAO, where it can't be just one shot. If something goes even a degree in the direction of sideways, it's mag-dumping until the unarmed civvie has been reduced to red paste, because the attacker forgot to wear a mask or some other preventable issue.

[Orpheus49]

19 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

 

This has always been my stance. I don't care if someone shoots my character, and I'll typically have my character go down after the first hit, because to the surprise of noone, bullets really hurt.

 

But, too many people treat this as an FPS or GTAO, where it can't be just one shot. If something goes even a degree in the direction of sideways, it's mag-dumping until the unarmed civvie has been reduced to red paste, because the attacker forgot to wear a mask or some other preventable issue.

 

You'd be suprised how often people take something as little as "what did you say to me" as a reason to fight someone who is just minding their own business

 

I get the notion that some characters are more violent than others, but then things like this make it unfun to stand around when so many people are looking to start a fight for essential nothing

[DLimit]

On 6/8/2022 at 4:03 PM, Orpheus49 said:

 

You'd be suprised how often people take something as little as "what did you say to me" as a reason to fight someone who is just minding their own business

 

I get the notion that some characters are more violent than others, but then things like this make it unfun to stand around when so many people are looking to start a fight for essential nothing

I mean, nothing wrong with a good fight. If a person wants to produce egotistical responses to a hot-headed person that's willing to fight over it? That's fine. It only becomes in issue when it escalates beyond a fight. I.E. A fights B. B turns with a crew to shoot person A. That's when it becomes excessive. 

Better to create long-term feuds over that one incident, which could develop in an ICly positive or negative direction, than for people to resort to homicide over a fight. 

Doesn't even have to be a fight, at times, but just a very heated argument that attracts a crowd.

[Orpheus49]

1 hour ago, DLimit said:

I mean, nothing wrong with a good fight. If a person wants to produce egotistical responses to a hot-headed person that's willing to fight over it? That's fine. It only becomes in issue when it escalates beyond a fight. I.E. A fights B. B turns with a crew to shoot person A. That's when it becomes excessive. 

Better to create long-term feuds over that one incident, which could develop in an ICly positive or negative direction, than for people to resort to homicide over a fight. 

Doesn't even have to be a fight, at times, but just a very heated argument that attracts a crowd.

The issue is when the person is actively rping methods to try to get people to fight them, and when the person on the other end isint even trying to. and then suddenly fists. Its less a long term feud and more a spontaneous reason to fight. Someone trying to rp something else. It becomes less compelling and far more annoying 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Orpheus49

[Triple Seven]

Can we not make rule for everything that's common sense? We're just stooping to the lower level if we want everything defined in rules, since it'll just become: "oh, X wasn't in the rules so I didn't know."

 

So no.

 

A common misconception is that deathmatching is only when a character dies (or even "loses" something). Deathmatching is any aggressive/hurtful action that is done without RP or proper escalation, meaning even just a /me can be deathmatching.