What classes as "Poor Escalation" and more importantly, why?

[Plutonium]

2 minutes ago, Morte666 said:

Now in the last few years, let’s be honest most people stopped fighting a while ago. 

 

They don't care bro, they complain about gang-bangers RPing like it's the 80's whilst they RP like it's the 70s because they want to be able to push around big ball characters with no depth, i.e, start fights and get away with it for a nice "realistic" RP development. Makes no sense.

"Criminal RPers are not better than me!!! >:(" because they honestly believe that your ability to hurt somebody or dominate a violent situation is what classifies greatness.

It's expected but I also expect better. Be ashamed of yourselves smh.

[Engelbert]

6 minutes ago, Plutonium said:

 

They don't care bro, they complain about gang-bangers RPing like it's the 80's whilst they RP like it's the 70s because they want to be able to push around big ball characters with no depth, i.e, start fights and get away with it for a nice "realistic" RP development. Makes no sense.

"Criminal RPers are not better than me!!! >:(" because they honestly believe that your ability to hurt somebody or dominate a violent situation is what classifies greatness.

It's expected but I also expect better. Be ashamed of yourselves smh.

I dunno what to tell you man. I don't live in US, guns are rare here so yes people fight actually. Then there are rules, complaining about this or that won't help anyone.

You shoot me, I shoot you back, tomorrow we start all that over again because of nobody wanting to take the L. I can just shoot someone in the game for looking at me sideways instead of starting a fight, cause it is safe to assume everyone has a gun. You still don't see the problem?

[Plutonium]

Just now, Engelbert said:

I dunno what to tell you man. I don't live in US, guns are rare here so yes people fight actually. Then there are rules, complaining about this or that won't help anyone.

You shoot me, I shoot you back, tomorrow we start all that over again because of nobody wanting to take the L. I can just shoot someone in the game for looking at me sideways instead of starting a fight, cause it is safe to assume everyone has a gun. You still don't see the problem?

 

The problem is the amount of criminal RPers and not poor escalation.

How to counter this? More legal, interactable, scripted, fun factions/organization. This will create a much better environment.

 

I'm not from the US either, I'm from the UK. I can assure you that at least 1/3 people that carry a knife around with them will also stab you for punching them.

[Engelbert]

4 minutes ago, Plutonium said:

 

The problem is the amount of criminal RPers and not poor escalation.

How to counter this? More legal, interactable, scripted, fun factions/organization. This will create a much better environment.

 

I'm not from the US either, I'm from the UK. I can assure you that at least 1/3 people that carry a knife around with them will also stab you for punching them.

Yes, the problem is in the numbers. Knife is usual weapon here as well.

[Shah of Persia]

4 hours ago, Plutonium said:

 

They don't care bro, they complain about gang-bangers RPing like it's the 80's whilst they RP like it's the 70s because they want to be able to push around big ball characters with no depth, i.e, start fights and get away with it for a nice "realistic" RP development. Makes no sense.

"Criminal RPers are not better than me!!! >:(" because they honestly believe that your ability to hurt somebody or dominate a violent situation is what classifies greatness.

It's expected but I also expect better. Be ashamed of yourselves smh.

Bro nobody cares about shitty criminal development arcs. Stop talking about depth like you're doing something unique. You literally sound like you've been roleplaying what everybody else has been roleplaying for the past ten years. And it's uninteresting and unengaging. There's literally rules in place so not every well-intentioned human that didn't choose the traumatized, unforgiving and relentless development arc for their character has to be subject to your gangster fantasy. There's 329 million people living in the United States. Get creative.

[Shah of Persia]

4 hours ago, Morte666 said:

How is that not realistic? Let me tell you something, I don’t know if you’re from the united states or what… or how you think the world works. It takes 5 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger on most handguns. So let me break this down for you, if you have to take a life in self defense then you have to, that’s completely realistic. People swear that after you take a life you have to rp breaking down, crying, this that and the third when In reality A LOT of people don’t at all, I ain’t saying that it’s not true that people don’t experience something after taking a life, but A LOT don’t. Now onto people dying because of fights, it’s 2022 nobody is really fighting now or days. 

 

Now in the last few years, let’s be honest most people stopped fighting a while ago. 

 

Like I said there's 320 million people living in the US in 2022 and the vast majority are just people who go to fucking work in the morning and pay their taxes. Just because you and others decide to roleplay the niche of the ruthless retard that pops up on worldstar doesn't mean that this should be the norm of roleplay. It's uninteresting and uncreative. There's a shit ton of ways you can roleplay a character that is up to no good without being the guy that has no fear or remorse. It's just surprising to me so few people seem to choose that path. There's rules to restrict you from roleplaying that shit character background or not so the game remains fair and fun. Nobody's saying that you HAVE to roleplay some psychological process visually when the realization hits you that you killed someone, but most of the time these exceptionally remorseless murderers you're referring to have a reason they are the way they are. And I just know that the vast majority of people didn't actually go through roleplaying that background or is actively portraying that environment as we speak. If you think you do, good for you. But very few people are justified in this type of 'poor escalation' and safe to say it shouldn't be allowed.

[Morte666]

Lol, recently was Ajailed after someone proceeded to Diss my dead homies multiple times multiple times after I gave him warnings, so I shot him. What did I receive in return? An Ajail which someone dissing someone's dead homie IRL leads to shootings all the time it's how most rappers get killed but I guess I should've just "Fought them" Over them dissing my dead homies and provoking I guess when someone's dead homies get dissed in real like they're supposed to just fight not shoot them. Honestly the reasons that people receive punishments sometimes kills me to be honest because, if someone disses your dead homies in real life and claim they're from another gang why fight them and risk them pulling a gun on you and you being shot if someone takes that risk to diss your dead homies showing no fear what so ever I guess you're not supposed to shoot them, I guess someone dissing your dead homies is just apart of a "Simple verbal altercation" I just don't understand it to be honest as someone who stays in a bad city I knew a few people who have got killed for dissing ones dead homie in front of them so for that to be "Poor escalation" I guess it just gives people the free pass to diss dead loved ones and dead homies without any IC punishment behind it.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Morte666

[Mistery14]

I'll try my best to actually answer OP's thread question, to then put my own view on the subject.

 

What classes as poor escalation?:

 

- Poor escalation is when a character's violent actions are disproportionate to the context of the situation when interacting with another character.

 

Example: Player A is walking in the street, Player B insults Player A, neither of them know each other, Player A pulls out his firearm and shoots Player B down.

 

Why?:

 

- Because without it, GTA: World most likely see an even greater surge in senseless character killings for little to no reason, like the above. Poor escalation is there to prevent or mitigate that.

 

Now my own input on poor escalation:

 

The mere fact that poor escalation restriction were set in the first place, means that poor escalation situations were enough of a problem for it to warrant something like that to be put in place. To me? Poor escalation restrictions make sense on a roleplay server, it's necessary. But it's not going to be optimal for everyone and their style of roleplay.

 

However, it depends on a few things from the way I see it:

 

- The individual behind the admin role who is going to handle the report.

- The time they can/are willing to spend handling that report.

- The amount of other poor escalation reports they've had to handle during their time online.

- Their own experience as staff members and dealing with players.

- Their willingness to listen to both sides of the story fully and understand context to a greater extent.

- Their individual bias based on their own preferences of roleplay. (There is always bias, it is not necessarily a negative thing).

 

Let's be honest here, situational context actually matters less than it should, that report will be handled in little time, because it's a necessity. Other things need to be dealt with. In most cases, anyone making use of a firearm during a fist fight/unarmed attack, is most likely going to face punishment for it because it's disproportionate use of violence, punching vs killing. Ultimately, out of the 2 players on that poor escalation report, one of them is going to come out of it frustrated and thinking the server isn't doing enough to fix their problem regardless.

 

One player's problem is that the other player was too quick to pull a gun.

 

The other player's problem is that to them it was justified to pull that gun.

 

Here's a few examples of situational context: Was it a surprise unarmed attack (i.e jumping), or did the two agreed they were going to square up? Did these two characters meet/fight before? Is either one, or both of them in a gang? Are those characters in a rough part of Los Santos? Did they both have a firearm? Is X character known to react violently? The list really goes on.

 

Let's look at two of some of my perspectives. What you're actually experiencing in-game, and what the server wants to enforce.

 

- What I think the server wants to enforce for characters: Your character is supposed to feel like they're living in a relatively normal city, where it's assumed the crime rate is still present but not absolutely rampant, your character is assumed to be a neutral person that would see no reason to make use of their firearm unless they were met with another firearm or knife in close proximity, because of proportionality of the threat. It wouldn't make sense for you to shoot someone just because they're punching you, it's a punch and you'll live through it, so you should punch back if you want to fight, do it proportionally to the situation.

 

- What I think you're most likely going to be experiencing with your character: Your character lives in a city where crime is pretty much rampant, and everyone has either witnessed or participated in violence themselves in a way at some point in time. In reality, when a surprise punch attack happens especially if more than 2 people are involved and at least one has a firearm, that firearm has high chances to be taken out and utilized, especially if the characters are hot-headed by nature. Similarly, if two characters are armed and engage in a brawl, someone is going to get knocked out eventually, which means neither want to take the chance of having their precious, pretty expensive firearm taken away from them/lost, so they take the gamble and pull their gun, which makes the other pull their gun. The losing party will most likely report the other because they feel a loss. The likelihood of people being armed and eventually using their firearm to get the final upper hand is too great to not pull out your own firearm. 

 

Again, it's not black and white and I know it, and I'm not even scratching the surface. So! What's my conclusion? In short, the more firearms there are, the more likely people are going to be using them. - At the end of the day, poor escalation restrictions aren't there to make it Los Santos true to real life, in fact I'd argue it'd be more true to real life without it. People are dumb with guns and both are plentiful. Yet on GTA: World, it's a compromise. It's there to make it less like GTA: Online and less about shooting and killing others, even though it's a factor in RP, it's there to make shooting and killing not the only viable option to resolve altercations.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Mistery14

[Jeroen]

About bars turning into RP hubs.

It's only natural that they turn into RP hubs when you can easily get dunked on if you take one step outside of the bar.

People gravitate to places with the least friction and least conflict, even with the robbery rules in place anywhere outside in Los Santos you're at a high risk of getting mugged.

 

Roleplay quality and the rules in general are enforced unequally, legal roleplayers are held at a much higher standard even though everyone should be held at the same high standard. Far too often comes some random stereotypical criminal roleplayer to do a stickup and they do a simple /me pats [John Doe] down. It's uninspiring and a detriment for the server quality, the worst part is you're forced to sit through their shitty roleplay, and yes I've seen even worse examples than that.

 

I guess that's also why half of my friends have moved away from GTA:W, shit just barely changes for the good of the community.

[Engelbert]

17 hours ago, Jeroen said:

About bars turning into RP hubs.

It's only natural that they turn into RP hubs when you can easily get dunked on if you take one step outside of the bar.

People gravitate to places with the least friction and least conflict, even with the robbery rules in place anywhere outside in Los Santos you're at a high risk of getting mugged.

 

Roleplay quality and the rules in general are enforced unequally, legal roleplayers are held at a much higher standard even though everyone should be held at the same high standard. Far too often comes some random stereotypical criminal roleplayer to do a stickup and they do a simple /me pats [John Doe] down. It's uninspiring and a detriment for the server quality, the worst part is you're forced to sit through their shitty roleplay, and yes I've seen even worse examples than that.

 

I guess that's also why half of my friends have moved away from GTA:W, shit just barely changes for the good of the community.

Well that's strange cause the bar in question, I was actually talking about is not really a safe place to begin with. Then aren't most of reports about poor escalation starting with an argument at a bar or a nightclub?