What classes as "Poor Escalation" and more importantly, why?

[Plutonium]

11 hours ago, Barbie said:

 

It's not metagaming to script fight after you get hit for the first time, especially if the person didn't provide any /me.  I was replying to  "A sucker punch in GTA W almost always results in one party being downed" and the part where you reached for the stars "that skinhead could have easily decided to end OP's character's life by throwing punches until they were in a downed state, looted them, and leave them for dead". My point was, if that was the case then fucking press left click too instead of pulling a gun and killing someone for a punch.

 

Alright I'll give you an example situation here that doesn't revolve around me, tell me what you think about the situation.

 

Bill James is a CCW holder from Davis, he works in construction however holds a CCW due to the high crime-rate of his neighborhood. He had been robbed numerous times.

In 2018 Bill and his older brother Otis got into a drunken argument with a male outside of a Vinewood bar, Otis pushed the male and the male responded by laying a punch into Otis' face. Otis dropped onto the floor and cracked his skull on the pavement, he later died in hospital after sustaining a severe brain bleed. Bill witnessed this entire interaction and was of course, mentally scarred from the situation.

 

Four years later, Bill gets into a car crash with another male; the male jumps out of the car enraged and attempts to hit Bill in the face however Bill manages to dodge the punch as he could see it coming. In fears of sharing the same fate as his brother, Bill uses his CCW to protect himself and shoots the male, unintentionally killing him.

 

Is this realistic? If not, why?

 

 

[Barbie]

5 hours ago, Plutonium said:

 

Alright I'll give you an example situation here that doesn't revolve around me, tell me what you think about the situation.

 

Bill James is a CCW holder from Davis, he works in construction however holds a CCW due to the high crime-rate of his neighborhood. He had been robbed numerous times.

In 2018 Bill and his older brother Otis got into a drunken argument with a male outside of a Vinewood bar, Otis pushed the male and the male responded by laying a punch into Otis' face. Otis dropped onto the floor and cracked his skull on the pavement, he later died in hospital after sustaining a severe brain bleed. Bill witnessed this entire interaction and was of course, mentally scarred from the situation.

 

Four years later, Bill gets into a car crash with another male; the male jumps out of the car enraged and attempts to hit Bill in the face however Bill manages to dodge the punch as he could see it coming. In fears of sharing the same fate as his brother, Bill uses his CCW to protect himself and shoots the male, unintentionally killing him.

 

Is this realistic? If not, why?

 

 

 

In a real life setting yeah anything can happen. My point is on GTAW you can't just use the pretense that "this could happen in real life" because there's a certain level of respect to have for other people's experience. Hence the existence of the DM rule. Serial killers exist out there but you can't just randomly kill someone "because it happens in real life". I'm in no way defending whoever punched the guy, I don't know the details and I can't stand people who don't /me before fighting. I'm just saying when literal gang characters are watched very closely and have to pay attention to who and why they shoot, CCW characters who aren't even used to that life should think twice before taking a life especially during what initiated as a simple brawl. There was no IMMEDIATE threat to the character's life, it would have been different if the guy was holding a bat or something.

[Xaleya]

On 6/3/2022 at 7:05 PM, Vassilios said:

In my opinion, if you have an option not to escalate to shooting and you do then it's poor escalation.

If you get shouted at you can either:
Ignore them/walk away, where the only thing bruised is your ego.

Insult them back which will turn to fisticuffs which will turn to shooting.

 

If both of them just beat up eachother and it stays there then fair enough.

If you actively do something that puts your life in danger and then you murder someone for it, that doesn't seem that realistic to me. Especially because noone roleplays the long term effects of taking one's life.

So you saying if I can't find any option to disengage the problem theorically I could put my gun out to defend myself.

Like I try to disengage/leave but the other person keeps trying to escalate it?

[Shah of Persia]

6 hours ago, Plutonium said:

 

Alright I'll give you an example situation here that doesn't revolve around me, tell me what you think about the situation.

 

Bill James is a CCW holder from Davis, he works in construction however holds a CCW due to the high crime-rate of his neighborhood. He had been robbed numerous times.

In 2018 Bill and his older brother Otis got into a drunken argument with a male outside of a Vinewood bar, Otis pushed the male and the male responded by laying a punch into Otis' face. Otis dropped onto the floor and cracked his skull on the pavement, he later died in hospital after sustaining a severe brain bleed. Bill witnessed this entire interaction and was of course, mentally scarred from the situation.

 

Four years later, Bill gets into a car crash with another male; the male jumps out of the car enraged and attempts to hit Bill in the face however Bill manages to dodge the punch as he could see it coming. In fears of sharing the same fate as his brother, Bill uses his CCW to protect himself and shoots the male, unintentionally killing him.

 

Is this realistic? If not, why?

 

 

I mean if Bill James has actually been roleplaying the trauma and doesn't just use it as an excuse to rapidly escalate a situation into homicide then be my guest. But most people don't, and roleplaying Bill's trauma like that can just come across as piss poor escalation. Bill takes zero consideration for the fact that the assailant is also just a player. Bill's escalation literally adds nothing to anybody's character development because it's a PK and wiped from the assailant's memory. Would Bill take 30 years of jailtime for it and roleplay a deep remorse or guilt or would Bill be that guy that goes on with their life like nothing happened? Probably the latter, unless it's a big part of his character arc that he wants to RP, not just a side-story. So it's just boring and stupid roleplay.

 

I mean in this anecdote and the OP it seems like you're forgeting that you could also just draw a gun and even fire a warning shot or something if it is neccessary. You're making drawing a gun synonymous with actually using it.

[Xaleya]

1 minute ago, Solsroyce said:

I mean if Bill James has actually been roleplaying the trauma and doesn't just use it as an excuse to rapidly escalate a situation into homicide then be my guest. But most people don't, and roleplaying Bill's trauma like that can just come across as piss poor escalation. Bill takes zero consideration for the fact that the assailant is also just a player. Bill's escalation literally adds nothing to anybody's character development because it's a PK and wiped from the assailant's memory. Would Bill take 30 years of jailtime for it and roleplay a deep remorse or guilt or would Bill be that guy that goes on with their life like nothing happened? Probably the latter, unless it's a big part of his character arc that he wants to RP, not just a side-story. So it's just boring and stupid roleplay.

 

I mean in this anecdote and the OP it seems like you're forgeting that you could also just draw a gun and even fire a warning shot or something if it is neccessary. You're making drawing a gun synonymous with actually using it.

As far I'm aware, warning shots can get your CCW revoked by FLD and PD...
That's my knowledge

[Shah of Persia]

Just now, Xaleya said:

As far I'm aware, warning shots can get your CCW revoked by FLD and PD...
That's my knowledge

What does this matter when killing somebody could get you in jail? You're missing the point. Killing somebody should be thought of a last resort. You can be creative and do a hundred different things. We're all here to have fun roleplay and if people aren't here for that than they can fuck right off.

 

Quote

If it was an uncommon reaction for a South Central LA criminal, carrying a gun to protect himself, with a history of gang-violence to react by turning around and fighting a skinhead after being run up on and hit then I'd understand why it would be classed as poor-escalation.

This is your problem.

[Xaleya]

2 minutes ago, Solsroyce said:

What does this matter when killing somebody could get you in jail? You're missing the point. Killing somebody should be thought of a last resort. You can be creative and do a hundred different things. We're all here to have fun roleplay and if people aren't here for that than they can fuck right off.

 

I was talking about warning shots can get you into jail either way lol because reckless behavior. 

You either point your gun for scaring off the person but not shooting at any way, since warning shots in a way or another can get the situation escalated without reasons.

[Engelbert]

People should stop treating bars as rp hubs, while they appear to be so, someone driving a porsche wouldn't go to a rundown bar somewhere just to have a drink.

Yet people do that and then they wonder, why group of skinheads chases someone in fancy clothing and perhaps also of different skin color. 

Reason: Cause they do that irl and they do that often, it's not a once per month occurence. This is not aimed at one scenario. Sure people may argue, my character doesn't know this or that, that's why they thought they could go there. I mean really? South Central and Vespucci are known areas for high crime rate, pretty much everytime something happens, it's there. First thing a cop would tell you irl is not to go to areas with high crime rate. They would never recommend you to carry a gun when going there.

Use your own head and look around before you decide to use a gun in a fistfight, think for a moment when you enter a bar and you hear punk music and see bar full of people, that look fishy. Also plz don't compare Venice to Vespucci, these two are different. Do not look at LS like it is Los Angeles. Use server lore and continuity. People put a lot of effort into mapping gangs in LS and drawing turf maps and stuff. Use that.

 

Also people argue, it is a game man, we can do this or that. Yes you can, but this is roleplay. Roleplay usually goes beyond "mere" game, mere game is GTAO for example. Nobody forces anyone to roleplay there. Here it is different, you have set of rules and limits to certain concepts, otherwise you can roleplay what you want. But keyword is roleplay.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Engelbert

[Plutonium]

1 hour ago, Xaleya said:

So you saying if I can't find any option to disengage the problem theorically I could put my gun out to defend myself.

Like I try to disengage/leave but the other person keeps trying to escalate it?

 

Disengaging situations is something that police officers go through extensive training to be able to achieve.

Here's an example: a short tempered hoodlum with a history of gang-violence, visiting a bar to celebrate his release from prison gets into an altercation with another gangster from within the same city. The other gangster starts trying to rush the original hoodlum, he turns around and shoots him. 

Neither did the hoodlum have even close to either A. have any idea how to de-escalate a situation that has already turned violent. or B. even want to deescalate the situation. I'm mentioned in previous comments, if it was a civilian being attacked by the gang member I think that would be poor escalation, this is because the chances of them realistically doing that is low; the majority of civilians would run. (Especially the type of personalities Legal RPers tend to RP (Clean history, non-violent, upper-middle class, etc.)

 

This is also what I meant by each case should be dealt with on a case by case basis with the characters' backstory coming in as a major part. If everything is realistic it should happen, I don't see how that is a problem.

[Xaleya]

2 minutes ago, Plutonium said:

 

Disengaging situations is something that police officers go through extensive training to be able to achieve.

Here's an example: a short tempered hoodlum with a history of gang-violence, visiting a bar to celebrate his release from prison gets into an altercation with another gangster from within the same city. The other gangster starts trying to rush the original hoodlum, he turns around and shoots him. 

Neither did the hoodlum have even close to either A. have any idea how to de-escalate a situation that has already turned violent. or B. even want to deescalate the situation. I'm mentioned in previous comments, if it was a civilian being attacked by the gang member I think that would be poor escalation, this is because the chances of them realistically doing that is low; the majority of civilians would run. (Especially the type of personalities Legal RPers tend to RP (Clean history, non-violent, upper-middle class, etc.)

 

This is also what I meant by each case should be dealt with on a case by case basis with the characters' backstory coming in as a major part. If everything is realistic it should happen, I don't see how that is a problem.

I understand that, but the situation won't be different if you are within a low-crime rate zone? You being a civilian and having a gun like @Engelbert said.