What classes as "Poor Escalation" and more importantly, why?

[Plutonium]

1 minute ago, Vassilios said:

In my opinion, if you have an option not to escalate to shooting and you do then it's poor escalation.

If you get shouted at you can either:
Ignore them/walk away, where the only thing bruised is your ego.

Insult them back which will turn to fisticuffs which will turn to shooting.

 

If both of them just beat up eachother and it stays there then fair enough.

If you actively do something that puts your life in danger and then you murder someone for it, that doesn't seem that realistic to me. Especially because noone roleplays the long term effects of taking one's life.

 

I agree, the DM rules state that if you instigate an argument with the intention arise the opportunity of pulling your weapon and shooting them then it is indeed DM.

 

However I think that depending on the character? Running away from a fight is extremely unrealistic, whereas the anger generated through being physically attacked by another could result in the other party pulling a weapon.

 

I think that a situation where a murder happened in self-defense however wouldn't be justified (i.e my situation, where someone attempted to rush my character and my character responded by shooting him) and the weapon is a PF/CCW weapon that is legally registered to them would be extremely unrealistic and would definitely class as poor escalation. However unjustified self-defense is a thing that hundreds of people get locked up for, it's an abuse of force given to you by holding a pistol.

However in my opinion, unjustified self defense (i.e. the attack on you has been instigated, you've been hit and the perpetrator intends to hit you more) is not poor escalation, it's just extremely immoral and needs to be roleplayed completely.

 

I feel like the real way to combat this, is for the LSPD to have the means and motivation to trace weapons back to their owner with the charge given when arrested, being extremely high.  

 

[Chaishi]

i think u told me to police

 

time 2 hunt u

[Plutonium]

Just now, Van said:

i think u told me to police

 

time 2 hunt u

what

[Orpheus49]

To the most common form of poor escalation is when gangbangers insult someone, and they either get ignored or insulted back and take that as reason enough to call the rest of their crew to beat or rob someone. Or even get outta their car to do it if said person was on the street

 

Looking for a fight for people who don't want it is more annoying that fun. 

[NickyW]

i think poor escalation is more of a common courtesy thing than a portrayal thing

 

people get beat up and killed over bullshit all the time in real life, especially in the US.

 

4 hours ago, Orpheus49 said:

To the most common form of poor escalation is when gangbangers insult someone, and they either get ignored or insulted back and take that as reason enough to call the rest of their crew to beat or rob someone. Or even get outta their car to do it if said person was on the street

 

 

like this? this happens ALL the time. like you could literally take a stroll through jefferson boulevard or MLK ave and see this shit every day.

[RedRover]

15 hours ago, Plutonium said:

Why is that poor escalation?

Because we’re on a heavy RP server that should have standards to prevent it from becoming a DM server. It’s not that deep, to be honest. We can’t base everything on real life and it shouldn’t always be a 1:1 for the purpose of preserving standards. Justifying all this shit because it “may” be possible simply gives people reason to DM someone and lawyer their way out of it.
 

Escalation standards exist as common sense and common courtesy, in my opinion. Get punched in the face? Punch back. Let the RP flow rather than jumping straight to a gun because your OOC ego took a hit. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Brofessor

[Mistery14]

I think what the OP probably means but perhaps failed to mention in their original post is that, unlike real life where you can decently easily read people's intentions through body language or facial expression\, on GTA W there's no telling what the person might do after an unclear emote.

 

There was also an apparent lack of information in the skinhead's /me, "/me sneaks [character] from behind" which, rightfully was interpreted as a "/me rushes." given the context. What this means is, that skinhead could have easily decided to end OP's character's life by throwing punches until they were in a downed state, looted them, and leave them for dead.

 

People are unpredictable. Yes, this is poor escalation in a normal world if it really stopped at one single punch, but at the same time, is it really surprising here? A sucker punch in GTA W almost always results in one party being downed, people don't want others to come back for them, so they use killing as an excuse to force people into a PK. Nothing in the /me indicated it was one single punch, (Actually, nothing even indicated a punch, at all.) - No further information given. It could have easily resulted in OP's character's death and/or pistol being taken away.

 

I think this is amongst one of the biggest problem of GTA W's playerbase. It's normalized to not give people the bare minimum information when you interact with them. It's not about typing out paragraphs of detailed combat RP, but giving a little insight for your intentions, is one step forward into NOT being killed by misinterpretation.

 

Neither of them are in the right, this is not entirely on Plutonium's fault in my book.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Mistery14

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

Anything that leads to me losing!

 

Nah seriously though I feel like "poor" escalation is 100% fine as long as it leads to nobody dying too early, killing people and/or being killed is one of the biggest doorstops to decent RP when a lot of situations would work out better if people weren't as bloodthirsty.

 

I should be able to suckerpunch someone because they ignored my drunk character and he took it as a hit to his ego, for example. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by BINGBONGBALONEY

[Plutonium]

3 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

Because we’re on a heavy RP server that should have standards to prevent it from becoming a DM server. It’s not that deep, to be honest. We can’t base everything on real life and it shouldn’t always be a 1:1 for the purpose of preserving standards. Justifying all this shit because it “may” be possible simply gives people reason to DM someone and lawyer their way out of it.
 

Escalation standards exist as common sense and common courtesy, in my opinion. Get punched in the face? Punch back. Let the RP flow rather than jumping straight to a gun because your OOC ego took a hit. 

 

I think assuming that everyone intertwines their OOC ego with their IC ego is slightly impetuous and extremely generalized. 

Escalation existing as common sense would most define the threshold in which escalation is acceptable and unacceptable, it also definitely means that not every situation needs to evolve in the same way. Your response seems as if you don't believe that using a weapon is RP orientated unless it's a planned hit or has actual text-rp leading up to the event.

 

"Get punched in the face? Punch back. Let the RP flow rather than jumping straight to a gun because your OOC ego took a hit."

What about your IC ego? It's as if you need to jump straight to OOC ego but you assume that people do not roleplay realistic enough characters with enough depth that they understand the personality and ego of their character. 

If you're a civilian, a fighter, a unaffiliated drug-dealer etc.? Then of course, fight back.

However if it makes no sense for your character to be fighting in the street, for example if your character firstly is the type of character that will start aggressing a situation and possibly beating somebody up for the simple reason they didn't show them enough respect, then fighting another person in the street (which has ample risk involved) is unrealistic.

 

It's almost as if it's better for the server to be a "unrealistic fist fight on every corner" server than a " "DM" server", which it's not and never will be.

A DM server would be something like FiveM, where right after a situation is verbally aggressed you have the green-light to shoot people. You'd get in a lot of trouble for doing that here. Shooting somebody that attacked you is not DM and would be an extremely common reaction should you decide to punch a criminal and gang member who is carrying a weapon.

If you're simply a stranger that runs up to a gang-member whilst their shooting-shit in their hood, you could very easily get shot and die.

[Plutonium]

12 minutes ago, BINGBONGBALONEY said:

Anything that leads to me losing!

 

Nah seriously though I feel like "poor" escalation is 100% fine as long as it leads to nobody dying too early, killing people and/or being killed is one of the biggest doorstops to decent RP when a lot of situations would work out better if people weren't as bloodthirsty.

 

I should be able to suckerpunch someone because they ignored my drunk character and he took it as a hit to his ego, for example. 

 

If your character is explicitly drunk and gets shot for suckerpunching somebody then that is poor escalation.

If your character is explicitly drunk and manages to win a fight against a sober person, that's poor RP.

 

I'm not sure what you define "decent RP" as, personally I define decent RP as realistic situations that create immersion and story. However not every single bit of RP needs to create a fun interaction between the parties involved. Personally I think a big problem is that players die to quickly after being shot, I'm going to be writing a suggestion about that soon. Regardless, shooting somebody after you're attacked in the street would only be poor-escalation if your character is a civilian, LEO or seems to be of sound-morality.