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Bolingbroke Penitentiary = North County Correctional Facility?


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5 hours ago, Ted said:

This just seems like poo-pooing an idea without wanting to formulate an opinion why. 

What they are saying is that there will be no tangible difference in the way these facilities are ran if Bolingbrook is rpd as a County Jail in order to maintain SD's custody position. While you are part of Custody you should be able to acknowledge that SD, their leadership, and on a structural level, has no interest in Custody. They gave gone from only custody when they first started, to 10 hours mandatory jail time, to 2.5 hours. Having people with experience in jail becoming Custody Assistants hasnt solved the issue.  What TEO is saying is right, you are suggesting taking the jail and moving it somewhere else, and that fixes none of the problem Jail Rpers face. It also nullifies every possibility of one day having a Prison, which would make more sense for the majority of active people in Jail who have been convicted. 

 

Again, if we're going to move to Bolingbrook State Pen. it should remain a State Pen, and there should be an entirely custody focused faction running it. Yall might say "Itll end up like park rangers!" To which Id say the following: the amount if interest in Custody rp in the SD, right now, is less interest and activity than Park Rangers. There is also a great many people who are not happy with the way SD has been ran, and who would be eager to rp a SADCR faction. Custody rpers in SD could easily make the switch.

 

A switch to SADCR would bring a massive boost to Prison activity if done right. We have been told in this thread that often inmates are inactive, but nobody has addressed why. Its this way because 99% of the time they will be sitting at the table with no Deputies around. While we can make our own fun, our schemes and RP is still stiffled by the lack of jevents like commissary, yard, and the like which are entirely irregular. This irregularity is unfair to the inmates. People can only sit and talk in the same room for so long. LSSD has been told about making this things regular and scheduled, and has ignored this. SADCR, being a totally custody oriented faction, would likely have a much better working relationship with inmates which could ensure quality of life changes, and this relationship no longer exists with LSSD. 

 

I have, with no exaggeration, been in jail from the very beginning. In that time, SDs shift in focus has been clear and apparant. No custody recruitment drive will change that. What we need is a faction entirely focused on custody. Removed entirely from the SD, and their current, 2 hours of jail time a month, culture. What we need is regularly scheduled events from which we can rp in and around. No change of setting will boost the population; it has to be a fundamental change in how the Jail is ran. 

 

If we go to Bolingbrook, keep it a penitentiary, and have a SADCR faction run it. Not SD. Otherwise you're just taking the problem, and pushing it somewhere else. 

 

First and foremost thank you for the detailed response, I appreciate that you're keeping it civil and you've put effort into this. 

 

Ideally it would be amazing to have an actual penitentiary and perhaps even a dedicated corrections faction, as good as it would be to also have elements such as Highway Patrol and other factions that are presently a no-go. The issue therein however lies in manpower and resources.

 

To produce a faction akin to SADCR it would certainly require an abundance of effort and resources that are in short supply. While I recognize the jail can be slow at times and swapping out county jail locations isn't going to be a fix all for the problems that are rampant, I don't think having a dedicated corrections faction is something present server leadership would encourage due to the sheer scale of what is required to facilitate it.

 

That aside, is custody operations attempting to do better? Yes. Absolutely. I believe good progress can be made as long as everyone can keep an open door to criticism and suggestions, as George (current custody head) has done so far. Infact as a start I've already managed to collect a few critical points brought up in thread, such as lack of set schedule or initiative by custody personnel and I will bring it to George and see if we can perhaps encourage people to be more proactive with the use of IC monetary incentives or reward.

 

I've just been on a short hiatus from anything ingame due to working IRL myself but plan to come back with the full enthusiasm as I did prior.

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11 hours ago, PKMN_trainer said:

No. Putting a county jail where a prison should be just to make use of the prison is not the way to go.

TTCF works better as a county jail, not only that, but moving the location to Bolingbroke doesn’t do anything to help the lack of a prison on the server, instead just prevents it from ever happening.

TTCF should stay.

 

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Posted (edited)

I've always thought that Bolingbroke should have been used instead of TTCF because it IS the jail in GTAV and would have been easier/cooler to use. I know people complained about the semantics of it being a state penitentiary vs a county jail but we're roleplayers and can use our imagination and suspension of disbelief to not have that be such a big issue. 

 

That being said making a new faction strictly for custody roleplay is a waste of time and energy, people will be initially interested in it but as time goes by it'd probably have the same problems as SD does now in not caring enough to be actively there. And scaling back SD's patrols in favor of enforcing custody roleplay is just going to make people phone it in as @beets said or they'd outright quit or transfer to PD. You can't force people to RP anything as requirements or what have you, it'll always lead to apathy and people ultimately quitting entirely. 

 

I think the fact of the matter is that a majority of the playerbase doesn't really care for prison rp at all. Whether they're LEO rpers or illegal rpers. LEOs essentially have to act as NPCs just to facilitate jail RP, and illegal rpers most likely don't give a shit about prison rp besides the act of getting out and having fun outside of it. There's clearly people in this thread passionate about prison RP, but it begs the question on why don't these players also play Custody Assistants in order to facilitate this type of RP they want to see? My guess is the majority would probably get bored just like everyone else. Be the change you want to see, forcing people to RP things they don't want to will only lead to worse roleplay.

Edited by nwah_
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38 minutes ago, nwah_ said:

I've always thought that Bolingbroke should have been used instead of TTCF because it IS the jail in GTAV and would have been easier/cooler to use. I know people complained about the semantics of it being a state penitentiary vs a county jail but we're roleplayers and can use our imagination and suspension of disbelief to not have that be such a big issue. 

 

That being said making a new faction strictly for custody roleplay is a waste of time and energy, people will be initially interested in it but as time goes by it'd probably have the same problems as SD does now in not caring enough to be actively there. And scaling back SD's patrols in favor of enforcing custody roleplay is just going to make people phone it in as @beets said or they'd outright quit or transfer to PD. You can't force people to RP anything as requirements or what have you, it'll always lead to apathy and people ultimately quitting entirely. 

 

I think the fact of the matter is that a majority of the playerbase doesn't really care for prison rp at all. Whether they're LEO rpers or illegal rpers. LEOs essentially have to act as NPCs just to facilitate jail RP, and illegal rpers most likely don't give a shit about prison rp besides the act of getting out and having fun outside of it. There's clearly people in this thread passionate about prison RP, but it begs the question on why don't these players also play Custody Assistants in order to facilitate this type of RP they want to see? My guess is the majority would probably get bored just like everyone else. Be the change you want to see, forcing people to RP things they don't want to will only lead to worse roleplay.

 

As I expressed Bolingbroke actually lines up well with North County Correctional Facility, a LASD-run jail.

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58 minutes ago, nwah_ said:

I've always thought that Bolingbroke should have been used instead of TTCF because it IS the jail in GTAV and would have been easier/cooler to use. I know people complained about the semantics of it being a state penitentiary vs a county jail but we're roleplayers and can use our imagination and suspension of disbelief to not have that be such a big issue. 

 

That being said making a new faction strictly for custody roleplay is a waste of time and energy, people will be initially interested in it but as time goes by it'd probably have the same problems as SD does now in not caring enough to be actively there. And scaling back SD's patrols in favor of enforcing custody roleplay is just going to make people phone it in as @beets said or they'd outright quit or transfer to PD. You can't force people to RP anything as requirements or what have you, it'll always lead to apathy and people ultimately quitting entirely. 

 

I think the fact of the matter is that a majority of the playerbase doesn't really care for prison rp at all. Whether they're LEO rpers or illegal rpers. LEOs essentially have to act as NPCs just to facilitate jail RP, and illegal rpers most likely don't give a shit about prison rp besides the act of getting out and having fun outside of it. There's clearly people in this thread passionate about prison RP, but it begs the question on why don't these players also play Custody Assistants in order to facilitate this type of RP they want to see? My guess is the majority would probably get bored just like everyone else. Be the change you want to see, forcing people to RP things they don't want to will only lead to worse roleplay.

 

Agreed, a new custody faction while cool wouldn't work.

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You can’t incentivize good RP and it’s obvious that 90 percent of SD can care less about jail. I remember when they added bonuses for deputies to do extra jail hours and while that may seem like a good idea, it doesn’t work in the long run because all you have to do is AFK or sit in the bubble all day instead of providing actual RP. I can’t say I blame deputies for not wanting to provide jail rp, because it’s a niche and they would rather be a detective, tactical team member, etc than work a county jail. It’s never going to be engaging for them because they could give a shit less either way. If there were no jail hours, a high majority of deputies would never set foot in jail. SD has however gotten better in recent times under Stephen, and the newer CAs like @Sim and @sixtyeight amongst others provide near daily events in jail. 
 

Will a corrections faction be super active? Definitely not. But I fail to see how it can be any worse activity wise than SD historically or right now, because the few people in it would actually care solely about custody RP. Jail is also sporadically active and goes through peaks and down periods. If SAPR was added to police a mostly inactive state park and the county after the hunting update, a small but dedicated faction dedicating to the niche of jail rp would be doable if the right people and circumstances permitted. 

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1 hour ago, beets said:

I'm not sure how you'd even implement this practically; if you want SD to focus more on jail, how do you incentivize that? As I've seen in my experience, mandatory jail hours only causes people to sit AFK in the bubble to check off their box for the month. You don't incentivize people to actually DO things in TTCF by making it a mandatory requirement to play the faction. In fact I'd say it has the inverse effect- people are even less likely to get seriously engaged with it if theres a time requirement.

 

I'd like to actually hear what could be done in practice that would make jail roleplay engaging for CAs and deputies. Running chow, yard, etc. creates roleplay opportunities for inmates and I understand that- but it does ultimately end up being a chore for deputies who set it up. As far as the main topic of this thread, the hype would quickly fade away and it would end up with the same issues as TTCF. I dont see an additional faction being viable- I'm not sure why theres an expectation that creating a new faction specifically for this project would assist with anything. The idea of a Corrections dept. is nice in theory but I seriously seriously doubt there would be enough interested people that would keep that fac rolling for more than a couple weeks at best.

 

 

 

It should be incentivized by having a structure of promotions and responsibilities tied to worthwile jail activity. A deputy that focuses on providing a good environment for the inmates should be promoted, and given given worthwhile responsibilities in the Jail environment. This could include running programs, Operation Safe Jails, and the like. Right now, Custody Assistants are not given much upward mobility, from what I understand. 

 

First of all I think that a CA should understand that jail is a different. It is not necessarily less fun, however it is not going to be you going out, stopping crime, and being the good guy. That said I think there should be organized, and scheduled jail events. Which makes it easier for both Deputies, and Inmates to plan RP for these times. Right now they're sporadic and require the will and consent of around 3 guards. Making things scheduled instead of sudden can go a long way. Deputies may also want to pay attention to the RP of inmates, so as to gauge who is who. Who has power, who doesn't, and the like, which will make things like shakedowns and lockdowns more impactful. 

 

Overall, I think that the first part of your last paragraph is the perfect reason as to why we need a separate, custody oriented faction. Jail RP to many is not boring, but it is boring to the vast majority of the people that the SD recruits, and its generally said that Jail RP is boring in SD, which helps ingrain this culture. SD, intentionally or unintentionally, has inhibited the growth of Jail RP thanks to this dichotomy. By fostering a faction dedicated to the form of RP which has been around this server now for years we would an improvement in the quality, and fun of this RP. 

 

1 hour ago, radreaper100 said:

Ideally it would be amazing to have an actual penitentiary and perhaps even a dedicated corrections faction, as good as it would be to also have elements such as Highway Patrol and other factions that are presently a no-go. The issue therein however lies in manpower and resources.

 

To produce a faction akin to SADCR it would certainly require an abundance of effort and resources that are in short supply. While I recognize the jail can be slow at times and swapping out county jail locations isn't going to be a fix all for the problems that are rampant, I don't think having a dedicated corrections faction is something present server leadership would encourage due to the sheer scale of what is required to facilitate it.

 

That aside, is custody operations attempting to do better? Yes. Absolutely. I believe good progress can be made as long as everyone can keep an open door to criticism and suggestions, as George (current custody head) has done so far. Infact as a start I've already managed to collect a few critical points brought up in thread, such as lack of set schedule or initiative by custody personnel and I will bring it to George and see if we can perhaps encourage people to be more proactive with the use of IC monetary incentives or reward.

I think that people massively over-estimate the amount of manpower it would take to run a Custody oriented faction. Right now, while I do not know for sure, I would place my guess that there are around 20-30 Custody assistants. 5-10 of whom are exclusively dedicated to custody on their character. It would not take much to improve the current state of things. Resources is seperate, however, it can be achieved the same way the remap was achieved. If we have independent and dedicated mappers, it is much more likely to be approved. I do not believe in the whole "sheer size and scale" argument, when SD is a massive faction, and yet has 1 guy in charge of parole. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, nwah_ said:

but it begs the question on why don't these players also play Custody Assistants in order to facilitate this type of RP they want to see? My guess is the majority would probably get bored just like everyone else. Be the change you want to see, forcing people to RP things they don't want to will only lead to worse roleplay.

Admin record too bad 😔

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