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Noticeable increase in shootings and violent occurrences


kirbyz

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14 minutes ago, thekillergreece said:

I think you are a bit unfamiliar with what's going on and why someone proposed a specific area lockdown.

 

Let me break down in brief please.

- 4 cops were killed (https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/71156-gerardo-trujillo-tristan-mejia-4/#comment-756951)

- Unknown number of cops were killed (later voided) 

- 1 (2?) cops were killed (https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/71260-cory-lee-4-3/#comment-758050)

- 5 cops got ambushed and all of them but one got killed (https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/72082-tomas-riveras-anthony-laza-unknown-others-34/#comment-767222)

- 8 (?) deputies got ambushed and all killed/wounded. Sheriff's convoy ambushed enroute to TTCF. (source, there are vids in this thread)

 

The reason why I am listing forum reports is because they are the only sources I can provide, irrespective if they broke the rules or not. 

As you can see, up to 10+ cops were killed within less than 2 months. All these took place in Vespucci area.

 

Now, is it realistic? Does this happen in real life in USA / Los Angeles? If it happened, what would the LAPD do? I will leave this up to you to judge as I wish to keep my opinion private in this thread. 

I believe, in comparison to Davis, Vespucci has a big problem.

This comes down to the player and not portrayal of the character. We're playing a game and can't really basis 1:1 situations on real life situations as development and IC things happen. Now I do agree with you, ambushing cops and mass killing cops; you deserve to not even remotely play on the server. You're going against the U.S Government, you're going to lose in the end.

 

 

1 minute ago, Koko said:

 

These are examples of conflicts between organized crime groups save for Rancho 13.

 

Rancho 13 has OOC circumstances as to why they don't control Jamestown anymore that deeply played into that afaik otherwise gang turf is largely unchanging in most cases the way gangs sort it out and it's a meta of PvP encounters as a gameplay choice.

OOC wise their leadership was banned and punished; we won't get into that if you know, you know. IC wise, the lore of the faction still exists as there are 60+ characters that would've been affected that couldn't role play their characters anymore.

 

If we're talking about just the above quote more so than OCG wars, we can come to an agreement on that.

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5 minutes ago, BlindBvndit said:

OOC wise their leadership was banned and punished; we won't get into that if you know, you know. IC wise, the lore of the faction still exists as there are 60+ characters that would've been affected that couldn't role play their characters anymore.

 

If we're talking about just the above quote more so than OCG wars, we can come to an agreement on that.

 

I do agree on that, and yes, I was mostly talking about that more (less about OCGs, more about street gangs and particularly their direct impact on normal civilians). My character has been largely more directly affected by things relating to gang beef than OCG wars. These gang wars have been unreasonably violent in areas that also had a present civilian population, to the point that most civilians have simply moved out. As much as I love Little Seoul, it's a great example of that, for example. Groups currently active there are all street gangs and they arrived with a significant part of that neighborhood being normal civilians who have mostly all moved out to leave space for the South Central model of play.

 

OCGs having conflicts that escalate into mass-scale encounters and violence are most often not the issue here, and the Pacific Bluffs example is one I agree with from the start: that's fine, I don't think that's largely what people are complaining about.

Edited by Koko
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In character consequences that make people consider their life. Shot a cop irl you are going to get caught and going to serve a life  sentence.  So yes that means people will CK / NC, but I completely agree with the above point that a forced cooling of period should apply to the player that does that.

 

Equally shootings would go down if every traffic stop didn't result in a search of the vehicle for a gun. I think LEO could chill on that unless an evidentiary reason exists to search for a gun.  60% of vehicles on the server are driven by criminals so the hit ratio to real life is way higher. 

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Just now, Kenshi Haroku said:

And you think open warfare in the streets, shooting innocent civilians and police officers alike ISN'T akin to domestic terrorism? 

If you think think the above mentioned is okay, you're part of the problem. With respect.

This situation, what you're using to defend yourself isn't the case. It isn't domestic terrorism:

do·mes·tic ter·ror·ism
 
noun
noun: domestic terrorism
  1. the committing of terrorist acts in the perpetrator's own country against their fellow citizens.
    "domestic terrorism plagued the country during a time of high political tensions"

by definition what domestic terrorism is, source; google. A gang member shooting a cop, killing them. Isn't domestic terrorism. It's just murder. For example, if I were to shoot you, kill you. Then go kill a cop that responds to a 911 call of your shooting; it's not domestic terrorism. A domestic terrorist attack would be me, intentionally causing great massively bodily harm to everybody for a cause either it be far left wing, far right wing or a terrorist group (IE ISIS). You have to realize that you are trying to say gang members are terrorists. If an entire gang, granted were to target and cause harm to everybody in their sights; they'd be a domesticated terrorist group. But cop killings aren't really domestic terrorism.

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1 minute ago, Koko said:

 

I do agree on that, and yes, I was mostly talking about that more (less about OCGs, more about street gangs and particularly their direct impact on normal civilians). My character has been largely more directly affected by things relating to gang beef than OCG wars. These gang wars have been unreasonably violent in areas that also had a present civilian population, to the point that most civilians have simply moved out. As much as I love Little Seoul, it's a great example of that, for example. Groups currently active there are all street gangs and they arrived with a significant part of that neighborhood being normal civilians who have mostly all moved out in favor of the South Central model of play.

 

OCGs having conflicts that escalate into mass-scale conflict and violence are most often not the issue here, and the Pacific Bluffs example is one I agree with from the start: that's fine, I don't think that's largely what people are complaining about.

In recent events are you referencing SPB & Vagos MC conflict? That resulted in numerous shootings in K-Town? If so, I do agree with you; the mass scale shootings that take place for little developmental reasoning are pointless.

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4 minutes ago, BlindBvndit said:

This situation, what you're using to defend yourself isn't the case. It isn't domestic terrorism:

do·mes·tic ter·ror·ism
 
noun
noun: domestic terrorism
  1. the committing of terrorist acts in the perpetrator's own country against their fellow citizens.
    "domestic terrorism plagued the country during a time of high political tensions"

by definition what domestic terrorism is, source; google. A gang member shooting a cop, killing them. Isn't domestic terrorism. It's just murder. For example, if I were to shoot you, kill you. Then go kill a cop that responds to a 911 call of your shooting; it's not domestic terrorism. A domestic terrorist attack would be me, intentionally causing great massively bodily harm to everybody for a cause either it be far left wing, far right wing or a terrorist group (IE ISIS). You have to realize that you are trying to say gang members are terrorists. If an entire gang, granted were to target and cause harm to everybody in their sights; they'd be a domesticated terrorist group. But cop killings aren't really domestic terrorism.

 

When you have ten officers die in a single night during an ambush with automatic rifles, and a SEB convoy with a prisoner gets ambushed by automatic rifles three times; that's Domestic Terrorism. The main point I have is the level of responses, and how I'm supposed to incorporate it into my roleplay, as an LEO. If at least an officer dies a day, how am I exactly supposed to roleplay around that? I can't, because I don't think there would be a single person who would actually be in a job like that; that's like a higher mortality rate than the United States Army in Afghanistan.

 

The same goes for a level of law enforcement response. If you have somebody kill a cop and somehow get away from the initial scene? You won't only have the one agency looking for the person, searching EVERY part of the city but the whole damn state. You'd have every agency that works law enforcement in that area, and well, the rest of the state looking for that one person. You just can't do that here, because, we'd just be searching ALL the time.

 

Edited by DomThomson
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Just now, BlindBvndit said:

In recent events are you referencing SPB & Vagos MC conflict? That resulted in numerous shootings in K-Town? If so, I do agree with you; the mass scale shootings that take place for little developmental reasoning are pointless.

 

This example I think is the latest in this vein, and some clips I saw were honestly shocking, but away from the spotlight this has happened for longer in the area, which has driven civilians away entirely, even those of us who willingly mingled with crime and accepted it as a part of our IC life. We aren't talking Second Life-style mallrats here, we're talking those of us RPing civilians out in the street, 100% open to being checked and robbed being the ones driven away by the escalation in violence.

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Just now, DomThomson said:

 

When you have ten officers die in a single night during an ambush with automatic rifles, and a SEB convoy with a prisoner gets ambushed by automatic rifles three times; that's Domestic Terrorism.

Incorrect, that isn't Domestic Terrorism. That is simply an ambush. Domestic Terrorism for that ambush would be the convoy getting ambushed with mil-grade firearms and explosives. Not gang members shooting with a rifle with 5.56 & 7.62 chambered firearms.

 

Fucked up and coordinated attacks are not domestic terrorism. That's just gang members outsmarting LEO enforcers; simple as.

 

1 minute ago, Koko said:

 

This example I think is the latest in this vein, and some clips I saw were honestly shocking, but away from the spotlight this has happened for longer in the area, which has driven civilians away entirely, even those of us who willingly mingled with crime and accepted it as a part of our IC life. We aren't talking Second Life-style mallrats here, we're talking those of us RPing civilians out in the street, 100% open to being checked and robbed being the ones driven away by the escalation in violence.

I've only just really seen these clips, not really any past situations. But I do 100% agree that mass scale shooting that happen merely for a fist fight and resort in X side pulling back up to solve it with violence resulting in death. Deserves to have administrative get involve.

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