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Admin records should expire after 90 days


Shareef

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90 days is equal to three months. Three months is quite a long time, and this is enough time for someone to reform completely. I think that sometimes, players want to reform but their admin record is still stuck onto them, which makes it a lot harder to be treated like everyone else in certain situations. Because of this, I think that players who actually take the effort and still play 90 days after their punishment should have these punishments automatically removed from their record. I think the only exception should be that if they are banned for what they did, then of course do not remove the ban until they are unbanned. I just think that it's a bit unfair to judge people for what they have on their admin records that they can't explain, especially when it may be from some time that was very long ago, such as December, which was close to when the server opened. 

 

Removing these admin records would allow for more roleplay opportunities for players who wish to get involved with factions, even if they are not official, as people don't like to see people with dirty admin records. These clean admin records would let this person roleplay with others more. The problem with keeping admin records forever is that no matter how much someone regrets something or maybe even if they think the record is wrong, they can't argue it at all when someone is looking at their record and nothing else. Admins look at records to decide what punishment a player might face, and leaders of factions look at admin records before deciding whether or not they would like to invite a player to their faction.

 

I can speak from experience that sometimes it sucks to have a long admin record, especially from things that are over 3 months ago, some of these were done by people who aren't even staff members anymore. It just seems silly to me to always keep these records attached to a player. Years could pass by and they would still have these negative punishments associated with them. It just doesn't give people a chance to change if they will constantly get denied roleplay opportunities and given harsher punishments for the sole purpose of being punished in the past. It's a constant punishment that never ends. 

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Not sure if I agree. 

 

I don't think players are judged by the long-term admin record, more so their recent attitude/behaviour. Personally, if I opened an admin record to see multiple warns from over 6 months ago but an absolutely squeaky clean record nowadays, I'd believe they've reformed. You can clearly tell when a player has changed from their past, a good example being @aloegarten (who was called a "success story" the other day by a level 3 admin in voice), who hasn't been punished in a long time and has put some effort into roleplaying good characters in high quality factions. 

 

Image is everything and people could use the admin record to judge a player's image, but if it is clear a player's behaviour has reformed, it's unlikely they'll get denied roleplay. Often players who get into trouble with staff frequently see themselves as a 'target/victim', thinking they're always 'out to get' a certain player. This couldn't be further from the truth, in fact I brought the topic up of players having this mindset to several different admins over voice, and all the admins generally agreed it's more about how that player is acting currently and how they respond to punishments.

 

In a way it's a vicious cycle, sort of like:

Player gets in trouble -> believes admins have a vendetta against them -> continues to behave that way (rebel vs oppressor mentality) -> repeat, each time reaffirming the mindset

 

I've been a part of many communities where I've seen this mentality happen over and over, players get stuck in this mindset ("why should I improve if they're out to get me?" -> misbehaves, reaffirms belief) and often don't get out of it until they grow to change their own self-perception and decide to take iniative to change up their act. Players with these huge admin records can and are able to turn it round, it's happened many times in the past and I've named an example of one that's happened here - admin records aren't the thing holding players down one bit, it's down to how the player acts.

Edited by Pascal
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1 hour ago, Pascal said:

Not sure if I agree. 

 

I don't think players are judged by the long-term admin record, more so their recent attitude/behaviour. Personally, if I opened an admin record to see multiple warns from over 6 months ago but an absolutely squeaky clean record nowadays, I'd believe they've reformed. You can clearly tell when a player has changed from their past, a good example being @aloegarten (who was called a "success story" the other day by a level 3 admin in voice), who hasn't been punished in a long time and has put some effort into roleplaying good characters in high quality factions. 

 

Image is everything and people could use the admin record to judge a player's image, but if it is clear a player's behaviour has reformed, it's unlikely they'll get denied roleplay. Often players who get into trouble with staff frequently see themselves as a 'target/victim', thinking they're always 'out to get' a certain player. This couldn't be further from the truth, in fact I brought the topic up of players having this mindset to several different admins over voice, and all the admins generally agreed it's more about how that player is acting currently and how they respond to punishments.

 

In a way it's a vicious cycle, sort of like:

Player gets in trouble -> believes admins have a vendetta against them -> continues to behave that way (rebel vs oppressor mentality) -> repeat, each time reaffirming the mindset

 

I've been a part of many communities where I've seen this mentality happen over and over, players get stuck in this mindset ("why should I improve if they're out to get me?" -> misbehaves, reaffirms belief) and often don't get out of it until they grow to change their own self-perception and decide to take iniative to change up their act. Players with these huge admin records can and are able to turn it round, it's happened many times in the past and I've named an example of one that's happened here - admin records aren't the thing holding players down one bit, it's down to how the player acts.

This, basically.

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Guest Jordan

Couldn't agree more with @Pascal . A slight fraction of people here possess the "victim mentality", even though most of their punishments are completely just, no matter how long ago the punishment was. What you say on GTA:W's Discord and Forums, heck you could even say on the internet as a whole, is there forever. This is a community where text is used a lot more than voice, so your attitude and reputation is based on what you type, how you type it and what context it was used.

 

If someone wants to constantly shit-post and troll on GTA:W's Discord, then get in arguments on GTA:W forum threads, act like a dickhead to people in game PM's/Forum Pms, etc. Then fine, that's completely their choice, will they get banned for it? They mightn't, no. Depends on how extreme it is. BUT, will it be brought up if said person's faction wants to be official? Yes. Will it be brought up if said person wants to apply for staff? Yes. Will it be remembered when asking admins for favours? YES.

 

If a person has ambitions to do things here on GTA:W, it's very, very simple. There's a way of making sure good things happen to you during your time on GTA:W. In fact, you can use it in real life too. Just stop doing things that ruin your reputation and think.

 

For any who does has a record, does that mean the end of the world? Of course not! It's extremely easy to spot people who have changed their behaviour. Will their past record be brought up if they apply for any of the above? Yes, of course. Will it have a large effect on the outcome? Not at all, as long as they have shown signs of reformation.

 

But as Pascal said, the rebel vs. oppressor mentality, combined with the reassurance of your peers sharing the same mindset, literally does nothing for anyone. It's such a shame to see people treat #general in discord like a private discord and say whatever comes to mind in it. 

 

I hope this educates some of you to think before you hit 'enter' on whatever you plan on saying because it does have an effect on your time here, of course, depending on what is said. It's not "bias", it's not a "privileged status" and it's not "elitism". 

 

 

 

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Should have a section on the forums to appeal admin records I think, but make it private to only admins and the posting player, OR an option to appeal it on UCP where the admin can only see it? 

Edited by Aquila
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Admin punishments/action/whatever should never leave a players record. That's what it's for, a record of how they have behaved. Every person is a case-by-case situation and should be treated as such, looking at what their record has been like. Who cares if you got in trouble a few times when you were new? So long as you improve and don't make the same mistakes again then you're fine but then if you don't improve and you continue to misbehave or show signs of no improvement then the record is there to show for it.

Edited by Marksman
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On 6/25/2018 at 4:19 AM, Pascal said:

snip

yes xaqt very success...

On 6/25/2018 at 6:15 AM, Rheotic said:

This, basically.

good contribution to the discussion...

On 6/25/2018 at 7:48 AM, Jordan said:

Couldn't agree more with @Pascal . A slight fraction of people here possess the "victim mentality", even though most of their punishments are completely just, no matter how long ago the punishment was. What you say on GTA:W's Discord and Forums, heck you could even say on the internet as a whole, is there forever. This is a community where text is used a lot more than voice, so your attitude and reputation is based on what you type, how you type it and what context it was used.

 

If someone wants to constantly shit-post and troll on GTA:W's Discord, then get in arguments on GTA:W forum threads, act like a dickhead to people in game PM's/Forum Pms, etc. Then fine, that's completely their choice, will they get banned for it? They mightn't, no. Depends on how extreme it is. BUT, will it be brought up if said person's faction wants to be official? Yes. Will it be brought up if said person wants to apply for staff? Yes. Will it be remembered when asking admins for favours? YES.

 

If a person has ambitions to do things here on GTA:W, it's very, very simple. There's a way of making sure good things happen to you during your time on GTA:W. In fact, you can use it in real life too. Just stop doing things that ruin your reputation and think.

 

For any who does has a record, does that mean the end of the world? Of course not! It's extremely easy to spot people who have changed their behaviour. Will their past record be brought up if they apply for any of the above? Yes, of course. Will it have a large effect on the outcome? Not at all, as long as they have shown signs of reformation.

 

But as Pascal said, the rebel vs. oppressor mentality, combined with the reassurance of your peers sharing the same mindset, literally does nothing for anyone. It's such a shame to see people treat #general in discord like a private discord and say whatever comes to mind in it. 

 

I hope this educates some of you to think before you hit 'enter' on whatever you plan on saying because it does have an effect on your time here, of course, depending on what is said. It's not "bias", it's not a "privileged status" and it's not "elitism". 

 

 

 

why are u roasting

7 hours ago, Aquila said:

Should have a section on the forums to appeal admin records I think, but make it private to only admins and the posting player, OR an option to appeal it on UCP where the admin can only see it? 

I would love to be able to appeal admin records tbh but I don't see why they can't expire. If you didn't hack or anything, why does it matter that you said /ad a 90 days later 

6 hours ago, Marksman said:

Admin punishments/action/whatever should never leave a players record. That's what it's for, a record of how they have behaved. Every person is a case-by-case situation and should be treated as such, looking at what their record has been like. Who cares if you got in trouble a few times when you were new? So long as you improve and don't make the same mistakes again then you're fine but then if you don't improve and you continue to misbehave or show signs of no improvement then the record is there to show for it.

Admins care. When they factor decisions on whether it's a warning or a ban, they look at your admin record. I've seen or been told myself "ur admin record 2 long 4 de chat = ban" or "ur admen record go back 2 december wtf big ban"

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Guest Jordan
35 minutes ago, Shareef said:

Admins care. When they factor decisions on whether it's a warning or a ban, they look at your admin record. I've seen or been told myself "ur admin record 2 long 4 de chat = ban" or "ur admen record go back 2 december wtf big ban"

I mean, isn’t this pretty self-explanatory? It’s similar to how life works. @Marksman has it spot on. Each person is treated case-by-case, their record is their record and it’s there forever, as it should.

 

There’s people in the staff team with even bans on their record along with warnings and jails. I have a forum warning from like 6-7 months ago for Common Courtesy. Should this ever leave my record or their punishments leave theirs? No.

 

If you change your behavior and stop getting in trouble it’s legit more noticeable than a squeaky clean record.

Edited by Jordan
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4 hours ago, Jordan said:

I mean, isn’t this pretty self-explanatory? It’s similar to how life works. @Marksman has it spot on. Each person is treated case-by-case, their record is their record and it’s there forever, as it should.

 

There’s people in the staff team with even bans on their record along with warnings and jails. I have a forum warning from like 6-7 months ago for Common Courtesy. Should this ever leave my record or their punishments leave theirs? No.

 

If you change your behavior and stop getting in trouble it’s legit more noticeable than a squeaky clean record.

i'd love to c the records of the staff team w/ multiple bans on record cause somehow i dont believe that mens.....................

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