Revision of Robbery Rules.

[Dreams & Nightmares]

Can we do something about chicken running and looting bodies, too? 

🙂

[DasFroggy]

18 minutes ago, SLIME ALLEGIANCE said:

Appreciate the response, we could allow mistakes to happen during the robbery. But the individual has to leave /cim’s of there mistakes, things like that. Or PM the reporting authorities that went to the scene, or the robbery victim there mistakes they left.

 

That’s fair enough and agreeable.

 

Unfortunately, it's not. Last time people were allowed to decide what evidence they would leave behind, said evidence would consist of "It was a person" or "They wore pants". 

 

The entire reason we have these robbery rules in the first place is because people routinely went to unusual lengths to bypass existing rules then. You want to know why vehicle robberies are disallowed without faction association or admin approval? It's because unaffiliated throwaway characters were grouping up I to teams of four to asset grind by driving from crime to crime, rotating who did the /rob command to hide their chain robbing. The best possible center point to hit in order to limit this was to simply nix vehicle robberies conducted by rogue elements.

 

The consequences of this were pretty severe too. The robberies became so commonplace, people stopped going outside entirely, killing businesses and pushing criminal roleplayers towards targeting all that was left - truckers, and eventually themselves. 

 

Things only turned around once the current robbery rules were implemented, because despite how much the criminal community insisted they could get it under control, they never could. People were just too eager to prioritize their short term gains over the health of the roleplay community as a whole, and it necessitated the rules we have now.

 

The point? The roleplayer that is committing the crime can't have any say in what evidence they leave behind. We gave a great many chances and literal YEARS worth of time for the criminal community (and roleplayers in general) to show that they could reign themselves in, and they didn't. They'll just do as they've done and aim for sharing only the most useless, irrelevant evidence possible when asked.

 

If someone wants to claim their character is a dumb criminal, then that should allow any and all recordings of their actions to be submitted as evidence available IC. I'm all for letting you have a realistically dumb criminal, but you have to understand that it's only going to happen if your realistically dumb actions have realistic consequences.

 

...or, if you want to avoid being on camera or described by witnesses, maybe just don't be dumb?

Edited April 15, 2022 by DasFroggy

[eTaylor]

2 hours ago, SLIME ALLEGIANCE said:

For my first statement, I am correct. If you read through previous reports, people are getting punished frequently over their character being dumb with their robbery and making mistakes. (Not pulling off the best crime)

 

For my second suggestion, it obviously says:

1. Mugging - taking or attempting to take anything of value by force, threat of force, or by putting the victim in fear. This is done on foot, no usage of vehicles. For example, people shouldn't be rolling up in a car/cars for a basic mugging. (/rob) & (/mug) 

Everything I described was factual, that is set within the Robbing & Scamming rules and expectations. You don’t have to be a mastermind to throughly look, before making a comment questioning someone.

I thoroughly enjoy holding onto the the last semblance of sanity I have left by not reading reports, so I'll take your word for it. But there's a distinction to be made between being roleplaying a kid with poor impulse control and planning and just being a dumb malicious player who hides behind "but my char 13" to pull off consecutive hits while clinging onto the game's meta. As for the rest, nothing you've described breaks the rules though. You didn't use a car to mug someone in your scenario so I'm not sure what the problem is in that regard. The rule's intentions are just as relevant as the rule themselves, and that rule is mainly directed at stuff like this;

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by eTaylor

[SLIME ALLEGIANCE]

2 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

 

Unfortunately, it's not. Last time people were allowed to decide what evidence they would leave behind, said evidence would consist of "It was a person" or "They wore pants". 

 

The entire reason we have these robbery rules in the first place is because people routinely went to unusual lengths to bypass existing rules then. You want to know why vehicle robberies are disallowed without faction association or admin approval? The best possible center point to hit in order to limit this was to simply nix vehicle robberies conducted by rogue elements.

 

The consequences of this were pretty severe too. The robberies became so commonplace, people stopped going outside entirely, killing businesses and pushing criminal roleplayers towards targeting all that was left - truckers, and eventually themselves. 

 

Things only turned around once the current robbery rules were implemented, because despite how much the criminal community insisted they could get it under control, they never could. People were just too eager to prioritize their short term gains over the health of the roleplay community as a whole, and it necessitated the rules we have now.

 

The point? The roleplayer that is committing the crime can't have any say in what evidence they leave behind. We gave a great many chances and literal YEARS worth of time for the criminal community (and roleplayers in general) to show that they could reign themselves in, and they didn't. They'll just do as they've done and aim for sharing only the most useless, irrelevant evidence possible when asked.

 

If someone wants to claim their character is a dumb criminal, then that should allow any and all recordings of their actions to be submitted as evidence available IC. I'm all for letting you have a realistically dumb criminal, but you have to understand that it's only going to happen if your realistically dumb actions have realistic consequences.

 

...or, if you want to avoid being on camera or described by witnesses, maybe just don't be dumb?

Yeah, with the information the individual that made the robbery has to leave back in depth information. Instead of the basic information, if giving subpar information consequences should be given. Or like you said, we have to supply a video. So we can have a say on the evidence we left behind, it will not be a issue.

“It's because unaffiliated throwaway characters were grouping up I to teams of four to asset grind by driving from crime to crime, rotating who did the /rob command to hide their chain robbing. The best possible center point to hit in order to limit this was to simply nix vehicle robberies conducted by rogue elements.” 

Yeah, I understand that. But why punish the whole server by gatekeeping it, instead of just punishing the groups of people doing it. That’s like when people was abusing the property script, why they didn’t take out the properties also? 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by SLIME ALLEGIANCE

[SLIME ALLEGIANCE]

8 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

I thoroughly enjoy holding onto the the last semblance of sanity I have left by not reading reports, so I'll take your word for it. But there's a distinction to be made between being roleplaying a kid with poor impulse control and planning and just being a dumb malicious player who hides behind "but my char 13" to pull off consecutive hits while clinging onto the game's meta. As for the rest, nothing you've described breaks the rules though. You didn't use a car to mug someone in your scenario so I'm not sure what the problem is in that regard. The rule's intentions are just as relevant as the rule themselves, and that rule is mainly directed at stuff like this;

 

Yeah these players should be punished, instead of rules being in place that basically makes it impossible to rob. Let’s punish these players, keep the people that actually has a real right motive towards his actions. Roleplaying it throughly, by giving in depth information of evidence he left behind or a clip of the scene. As I said earlier, replying to DasFroggy, just because multiple people is doing something bad with something in the server don’t mean it has to be removed. That’s gatekeeping it over other people’s actions, not the server entirely. That’s also saying, oh a lot of people deathmatch, let’s go ahead and remove weapons fully to prohibit it.

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, SLIME ALLEGIANCE said:

Yeah these players should be punished, instead of rules being in place that basically makes it impossible to rob. Let’s punish these players, keep the people that actually has a real right motive towards his actions. Roleplaying it thoroughly, by giving in depth information of evidence he left behind or a clip of the scene. As I said earlier, replying to DasFroggy, just because multiple people is doing something bad with something in the server don’t mean it has to be removed. That’s gatekeeping it over other people’s actions, not the server entirely. That’s also saying, oh a lot of people deathmatch, let’s go ahead and remove weapons fully to prohibit it.

You're not being punished, or gate kept. You admit these people should be punished yet you don't want a rule so they can be punished. You can still rob people, the only thing the rules are asking from you is to roleplay it thoroughly and don't just log on because you got a discord ping from a few homies in the "Logging On" channel and getting bored standing on a corner talking shit on discord so you decide to go chain rob some foos in a brand new Torrence. Robbery isn't prohibited, there are just very clear guidelines. 

[DasFroggy]

2 minutes ago, SLIME ALLEGIANCE said:

why punish the whole server by gatekeeping it, instead of just punishing the groups of people doing it.

 

Because in essence, it was the whole community doing it. Maybe not you, but the allure was apparently significant enough that most of the criminal community simply refused to act in such a way that made the rules enforceable in their previous iteration. 

 

If Joey Blowey or Gerald B. was found out by another criminal hat they were breaking the rules by chain robbing, the result wasn't a forum report without delay... instead it was either this softball "We'll give you a chance to improve before reporting you for breaking rules" done on repeat or straight up just asking for a cut while turning a blind eye (if not choosing to participate!)

 

Remember that thing I mentioned about peoppe taking turns with the /rob command while robbing in groups to avoid triggering the admin alert script specifically introduced to limit chain robbing? Do you know who discovered that? ...who reported it?

 

It was me. I had to create a criminal character and climb into the mess personally, and in doing so I uncovered the abuse. You know who didn't report it despite it being a widespread issue?

 

Everyone else in the community.

 

This isn't some "Well then it should be allowed if everyone's doing it" angle either. It yielded very real, tangible, and wildly detrimental effects on the health of the community.

 

...and even despite this, not one single person fessed up a out it until it was thrown on the table by an outsider that didn't have skin in the game.

 

If the community doesn't want to be punished, they can start showing some responsibility by showing no mercy to rule breakers. You give me a list of every person you have permanently removed from your association for breaking the current rules, and we can start talking about no longer needing these rules.

 

Until then, you can join a faction to do these things you want to do. That caveat was expressly created to address the concerns you've expressed, while maintaining the health of the community. It's a very nice compromise.

 

 

 

[SLIME ALLEGIANCE]

2 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

You're not being punished, or gate kept. You admit these people should be punished yet you don't want a rule so they can be punished. You can still rob people, the only thing the rules are asking from you is to roleplay it thoroughly and don't just log on because you got a discord ping from a few homies in the "Logging On" channel and getting bored standing on a corner talking shit on discord so you decide to go chain rob some foos in a brand new Torrence. Robbery isn't prohibited, there are just very clear guidelines. 

We are being gate kept, these new rules that “keep subpar robbers punished”, also makes it impossible to do regular robberies. Following these rules, The server unfairly expects all criminals regardless of their character background, to plan every single robbery they do as if they were professional heist crews. 

 

6 hours ago, ScarletRose said:

I do agree with the whole, planned out robbery part. The server unfairly expects all criminals regardless of their character background, to plan every single robbery they do as if they were professional heist crews.

Like, I'm an avid forum report reader myself and I've seen so many reports where the reporting party tries to use the "I had cameras, why did you do the crime without a mask when I had cameras?" as a basis for why someone's robbery was poorly RP'ed. And 90% of the time, the Admin sides with them and punishes the player for roleplaying their character being too dumb to look for cameras or worry about witnesses. It makes no sense to punish a player for roleplaying their character being dumb with their robbery. If someone disregarded the cameras on a property or did a crime with half a dozen witnesses seeing them, let them get caught IC'ly for that, instead of punishing the player on the forums for not planning their robbery sophisticated enough. In real life, criminals make dumb mistakes all the time. Such as robbing places without face coverings, getting fingerprints everywhere, or even something like looking directly into cameras on accident. It's perfectly realistic.

 

This guy, perfectly explained it.

[eTaylor]

Just now, SLIME ALLEGIANCE said:

We are being gate kept, these new rules that “keep subpar robbers punished”, also makes it impossible to do regular robberies. Following these rules, The server unfairly expects all criminals regardless of their character background, to plan every single robbery they do as if they were professional heist crews. 

 

Where does it say it wants you to plan every single robbery as if they were a professional heist crew?

[SLIME ALLEGIANCE]

12 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

 

Because in essence, it was the whole community doing it. Maybe not you, but the allure was apparently significant enough that most of the criminal community simply refused to act in such a way that made the rules enforceable in their previous iteration. 

 

If Joey Blowey or Gerald B. was found out by another criminal hat they were breaking the rules by chain robbing, the result wasn't a forum report without delay... instead it was either this softball "We'll give you a chance to improve before reporting you for breaking rules" done on repeat or straight up just asking for a cut while turning a blind eye (if not choosing to participate!)

 

Remember that thing I mentioned about peoppe taking turns with the /rob command while robbing in groups to avoid triggering the admin alert script specifically introduced to limit chain robbing? Do you know who discovered that? ...who reported it?

 

It was me. I had to create a criminal character and climb into the mess personally, and in doing so I uncovered the abuse. You know who didn't report it despite it being a widespread issue?

 

Everyone else in the community.

 

This isn't some "Well then it should be allowed if everyone's doing it" angle either. It yielded very real, tangible, and wildly detrimental effects on the health of the community.

 

...and even despite this, not one single person fessed up a out it until it was thrown on the table by an outsider that didn't have skin in the game.

 

If the community doesn't want to be punished, they can start showing some responsibility by showing no mercy to rule breakers. You give me a list of every person you have permanently removed from your association for breaking the current rules, and we can start talking about no longer needing these rules.

 

Until then, you can join a faction to do these things you want to do. That caveat was expressly created to address the concerns you've expressed, while maintaining the health of the community. It's a very nice compromise.

 

 

 

Okay, it was basically the whole community doing that was abusing the house script. Majority you can say the whole community is deathmatching on a regular, as you see how the reports are flowing. Why can we just punish those players, keep the stuff there using in the server. Like how it should be done, but not done for the robbery rules. They just take it out entirely, can’t pick and choose what to pick out and what not. Makes it unfair. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by SLIME ALLEGIANCE