Jump to content

Effectiveness of Housing Price Controls


Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

The only thing which stops you affording property RL are your finances. The same applies here.


Obviously finances are extremely simple here, though for the record, I've always been in favor of more thought out economy.

It's irrelevant in the sense that what your describing doesn't impact a cap on what a seller can theoretically ask for a house. (which is what the OOC limitations are).

 

What you describe impacts the available cashflow & finances of prospective buyers. - and there is a very distinct difference.

 

It’s still 100% relevant. There’s nothing impacting the cash flow of a buyer here, which is exactly what stops the average person in real life from spending stupid amounts of money on a house. You don’t see people asking for 100M for a house that’s not worth it. Why? Buyers won’t spend it IRL because it makes no sense. That doesn’t apply here. 
 

6 minutes ago, Power said:


THANK YOU. No one yet that has disagreed with me has been able to to answer this question for me. They keep saying if we remove price caps prices would go parabolic. So why haven't the Mirror Park houses which are probably the most desirable houses available for third party purchase on the server been selling after 6 months not been selling for 10, 20+ million. Anyone that disagrees please answer this for me. 

Simple. The new policy hasn’t had enough time to cause a long term effect. It’s not going to happen overnight precisely because the 6 month rule is in effect. That Mirror Park house that sold for 3 million? Have to wait another six months to sell it for whatever they want, but I’d be willing to bet it’ll sell for double next time. Then 6 months after that, rinse and repeat. Remove the 6 month limit? It would happen much quicker.

Edited by Brofessor
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

It’s still 100% relevant. There’s nothing impacting the cash flow of a buyer here, which is exactly what stops the average person in real life from spending stupid amounts of money on a house. There’s a reason

 

 

Incorrect. 

Things do impact the cashflow of any buyer on the server. 
* Total playtime on your character has a direct impact on your available cashflow.
* The job you have on the server also has a drastic impact on your available cashflow.
* Plenty of people run hustles, legal or otherwise - they impact cashflow.

* Taxation is a thing, it's just alot less than RL - but it does have a lesser impact on your cashflow.

Not all players / characters are equal on the server. Some are millionaires, many are not.

This means some characters can afford 5M on a house, most can not.

There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, there is everything right with that.

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

It’s still 100% relevant. There’s nothing impacting the cash flow of a buyer here, which is exactly what stops the average person in real life from spending stupid amounts of money on a house. 
 

Simple. The new policy hasn’t had enough time to cause a long term effect. It’s not going to happen overnight precisely because the 6 month rule is in effect. Remove the 6 month limit? It would happen much quicker. 

You are dancing around my question. Why haven't the houses like the one I listed below which are selling after 6 months why are they not being sold for ridiculous prices there was nothing stopping this seller for asking for 10 million, 100 million, 1 billion dollars. Because you said it your self the rule is slowing down the rate houses coming to market and by your explanation the price increases. So if you reduce the houses coming to market that would make houses even more valuable because they are rarer. So again why haven't desirable houses like these been selling for 5+, 10+ million. 
 


 

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, Power said:

You are dancing around my question. Why haven't the houses like the one I listed below which are selling after 6 months why are they not being sold for ridiculous prices there was nothing stopping this seller for asking for 10 million, 100 million, 1 billion dollars. Because you said it your self the rule is slowing down the rate houses coming to market and by your explanation the price increases. So if you reduce the houses coming to market that would make houses even more valuable because they are rarer. So again why haven't desirable houses like these been selling for 5+, 10+ million. 
 


 

I didn’t dance around anything. I answered exactly what you asked. Prices aren’t going to shoot up immediately, but they will over time as each 6 month period recycles itself and the next buyer pays more and more for the house. They would shoot up faster if that 6 month rule didn’t exist, since houses would exchange hands at a faster pace. Without a time limit or price control, the rate at which the price would go up would increase exponentially the more and more that house exchanges owners. The previous owner isn’t going to sell at a loss, just as you said. There’s only one place to go. Up. EVENTUALLY, house prices will be out of control. So yes, we’re already headed that way. I’d rather head there slowly than at neck breaking speed without price controls and time limits. 

Edited by Brofessor
Link to comment
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Brofessor said:

I didn’t dance around anything. I answered exactly what you asked. Prices aren’t going to shoot up immediately, but they will over time as each 6 month period recycles itself and the next buyer pays more and more for the house. They would shoot up faster if that 6 month rule didn’t exist, since houses would exchange hands at a faster pace. 

Disagree that the rule is slowing it down. Houses prices are going up regardless we both agree on that. Say if I were able to sell that house the next day how much more you think I would be able to sell that house for? You think I'd be able to get away with reselling it for a million more than next day? My point is whether in-between that 6 month period that house was able to sell just once or three times the price increase would of been the same. Because prices don't increase just simply because seller ask more, because there gets to a point where he prices everyone out of the market. Money supply and the total money in the economy is what determined prices and that doesn't slow down because you only allow uncapped prices on houses after 6 months. New characters get created everday and that's a theoretically that is a new 200k being injected into the server. Paycheck of Government workers injects too money into the server and that money flowing through to our economy is what allow players to bid up prices. Say no new Cash flow came into the money supply. Government paychecks could only be sourced from collected taxes that are already in the economy oppose to being generated out of thin air, what do you think would happen to house prices? If there is no new money coming into the economy people don't have the ability to bid up prices. 

The only way to slow down housing price increases is to slow down the new money being injected into the server and that isn't happening anytime soon because I see no one here advocating for the removal for 200k starter cash and things like that.. And like I said not advocating for the removal of all restrictions. What if we reduced the wait period from 6 months to 3 months which is a compromise I'd support do you think housing prices would sky rocket as a result?

Edited by Power
Link to comment

I always thought that the 6 month resell was meant to avoid people simply seeking a part of the housing market that is profitable (because when you're at that level of house you're not asking for 5k bid increments but often 50k or 100k) and going out of their way to ensure a passive profit of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars just because they managed to get an application past property management when their characters also have no real ties to real estate RP. It's just a way to try and impose on people to make a decision on holding onto a server property that's very sought-after because they want to make use of it and not only because they want to make profit off of it. Making profit off of houses is not inherently bad, but OOC speculation of goods that people would like for their IC enjoyment is not good for the server.

 

Would 3 months versus 6 months make a huge difference for better or worse? I don't know. I think 6 months is a good measure because the end of 6 months is a good predictor as to whether that character will or not still be active. I have no hard data to back this up other than my personal observations and how people talk about the longevity of their characters, but 6 months is seen by most as a long run for a character. 3 months, not so much.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Brofessor said:

It’s still 100% relevant. There’s nothing impacting the cash flow of a buyer here, which is exactly what stops the average person in real life from spending stupid amounts of money on a house. You don’t see people asking for 100M for a house that’s not worth it. Why? Buyers won’t spend it IRL because it makes no sense. That doesn’t apply here. 
 

Simple. The new policy hasn’t had enough time to cause a long term effect. It’s not going to happen overnight precisely because the 6 month rule is in effect. That Mirror Park house that sold for 3 million? Have to wait another six months to sell it for whatever they want, but I’d be willing to bet it’ll sell for double next time. Then 6 months after that, rinse and repeat. Remove the 6 month limit? It would happen much quicker.

 

It absolutely applies here though. That dude who tried to list a trailer in Sandy Shores for 1m last week got laughed out of town. Vespucci Canals houses are currently selling for anywhere between 2.7m-3.7m. You're more than welcome to try selling one for 5m but nobody is going to buy it. Just like real life, if you put something up for an absurd price, nobody will pay it because it doesn't make financial sense. There's also only a very small pool of players with multi-millions in the first place. Essentially nobody has 10m. After a point, the server also taxes your total wealth every paycheck. Eventually it gets to a point where you lose money every hour you play.

 

tl;dr People will only be able to sell houses for what other people can realistically afford.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment

Basic economics:

{\displaystyle P\cdot Q=M\cdot V}

Prices multiplied by the total quantity of goods (in this case properties) equals the total amount of money multiplied by the velocity of transactions. Since you can't increase the total quantity of houses (you can script more apartment complexes but not actual houses or trailers), and the total amount of money increases with new players, paychecks, etc, slowing down the velocity of transactions should slow down the prices increase. But in the long term, it's the amount of money spawning on the server that will determinate the price increase.

Link to comment
16 hours ago, Illusory said:

 

It absolutely applies here though. That dude who tried to list a trailer in Sandy Shores for 1m last week got laughed out of town. Vespucci Canals houses are currently selling for anywhere between 2.7m-3.7m. You're more than welcome to try selling one for 5m but nobody is going to buy it. Just like real life, if you put something up for an absurd price, nobody will pay it because it doesn't make financial sense. There's also only a very small pool of players with multi-millions in the first place. Essentially nobody has 10m. After a point, the server also taxes your total wealth every paycheck. Eventually it gets to a point where you lose money every hour you play.

 

tl;dr People will only be able to sell houses for what other people can realistically afford.

This is exactly how most of the people look at the situation. Nobody will pay 10m for a basic house when you can live in Eclipse and have a penthouse worth max. 1-1.5m that will look so much better.

 

People are VERY disappointed and unhappy with how the administration handles certain problems in terms of assets owning. This might not be visible at first glance but over the course of almost 3 years that I am playing on this server most of the complaints I hear and most of the reasons that I hear as to why people leave the server or are doing certain things differently is because of this, the amount of control that the administration wants.

 

People have been struggling to make a point since they are being ignored or just pushed away, making them just not want to express their opinion publicly as it won't make any change.

 

It has become clear to me while reading the response of the administration throughout this topic that they are not looking for solutions based on what the players want and what would make sense but rather solutions based on how they can control something that shouldn't be controlled by them and also they implement rules like:

 

- 3 hours per 14 days in order for you not to loose your property 

  -> Alright, so there are times where it is simply impossible that someone can invest 3 hours in the 14 given days (This could occur because people are travelling for work, vacation, being in hospital or a bunch of different reasons that sometimes are none of admin's business to know) and while we have a command /vacation it still only covers 2 weeks while most of the people have more than 2 weeks of vacation per year (Maybe I am wrong on the 1 year/2 weeks for the command, please correct me if so). However, I have to admit that if you are able to get in contact with PM your properties will be looked after even though there were problems in my case where they took them away from me right after they gave it back to me it still worked out pretty well in the end. I believe that a system can be implemented where PM should contact the owner of the property for their inactivity and I believe most of the time if the owner is unable to be active and also unable to sell the property in the given timeframe they will be lucky with a fair offer from PM to surrender the property. These properties can be put on auction once every month (if there are any of course) instead of them staying there just like that and improve the housing market. Taking them off just like that without warning will piss people off just like it did up until now! @Frezemis

  -> This leads to people loosing their items as well, let's say somebody had items that were worth a lot because it just so happens that this person owns a collection of swords (I just take it as an example don't beat me up for that one). This will lead to the person either complaining and get ignored or is forced to take the L or just for the person to not bother anymore with any roleplay regarding owning a collection or owning a property because it will be taken away from them just like that. Furthermore, it will decrease roleplay or have bad impact on the quality of roleplay because of the following problem:

  -> John Doe roleplays around and is a pretty good roleplayer, he engages in different kind of venues and is a cool person ICly that has a well paid job and should be able to afford a house/apartment where he can roleplay every now and then when the urge comes but he decides not to own one nor rent one because it simply does not make sense as it might get taken away from him and he will loose the money he invested into that AND he cannot really purchase items and store them in a house/apartment because he knows if he does that he will loose them anyways, so why bother? Moreover, John Doe applied for a PF license, he wants to shoot at the shooting range but does not need a CCW as he feels pretty safe without gun on himself at all times. Now the problem is  that he does not have any place where he can store the gun because of obvious reasons(sooner or later it will get confiscated by the administration because he was not as active) so he has to risk it all and on the next police stop he might get his PF licenses suspended, gun taken away AND serve jail time (This is just an example, there are thousands of different situations where you just can't hold every item you wanna own on yourself, makes no sense either and in addition to that it just makes sense that your character lives somewhere).

 

- 3x MP isn't as bad as everyone thinks but I have seen enough people owning basically half of Mirror Park at some point that were asking for something less than 1.5m for their houses but were unable to get due to the restriction so it meant that they were never going to sell these houses at any point waiting hopefully for some improvements to the rules which is the topic here and I believe that @Power expresses his opinion perfectly as well as @Illusory (It is true that this price has increased over the year or two but there is only so much money people have and are willing to invest for a small house and also inflation is a thing IRL too).

 

- So many houses that are not available to the public including most of Vespucci Canals houses and the houses in Richman being closed behind closed doors. There was an explanation by @Nervous that implementing these houses would take up a lot of the available resources from the server. However, we have seen that it is possible with the new housing system where you can request a house but the process is a bit exaggerated and a person has to wait months until they get what they want/allowed to get so in most of the cases it is the people that play the most that are also able to write cool essays which is alright but still not quite enough for the public to satisfy. (I have heard a lot of people that have characters that were there for years including mine and have made a pretty big wealth out of something that was beneficial to everyone on the server but still unable to get one of these houses or just can't be bothered with the process which kinda sucks to be honest) I remember I asked for a mansion to use for an event, a single party. We would take any mansion as a roleplay venue for modelling/events and other cool stuff, attracting a lot of people to it as we were on the top of the entertainment industry on the server but we never made it that far even after months. It took us about 2-3 months until we could get our "please" PM to be looked at and a lot of discussions here and there as to why it should be possible to make a single event there that would last about 2-3 hours, extending the process even further until the point where I just didn't even want to be there anymore and eventually took a pause with everything. After all if people are able to buy and rent houses/mansions we don't need PM to look over it as long as the players can pay because renting a normal apartment can be 30k/month or more I don't quite know the prices right now but a mansion might be more than 100k/month and not everyone can afford that. It is better for someone to use a property than nobody to use it at all, there are probably tens if not hundreds/thousands of houses that have not been touched by anyone fearing "resources of the server" but are scripted in already. I believe the public demands an answer to that for the longest time now.

 

I also see a pattern where the administration wants to further implement consequences for owning a property which shouldn't be the case. I believe that if it continues at this pace people will start selling all of their properties and just continue with their roleplay without them. You can't just force someone to be active and grind the whole time just to own a property, it's not what the players want. Restricting further houses under a very controlled system isn't the way to go either even though it produces a more efficient outcome, again it's not what the players want. Implementing a wealth/property tax isn't that bad but it really depends on how you wanna go about it and you can't really punish players for not being able to be online 24/7 it's just a game after all, most of us have lives outside of this game and there is already the 3 hours/14 days rule anyways that is ridiculous enough because you not only have to be online but you have to be on the specific character AND you need to actually use the property (gives no point of having 2 or more characters owning a property which makes sense up until some point).

 

I don't know there are maybe more points, maybe some points might be wrong but they have been built up throughout the 2-3 years of my experience on the server and talking with a lot of people ICly and OOCly which by the way share the same or similar opinion. I don't want to derail the topic or anything but I see this as an opportunity to further explain the problem and maybe get attention by the administration to take some of these points in consideration just like I did in a previous post with the car prices and the problems around them. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
  • Wuhtah locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
  • Create New...