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Effectiveness of Housing Price Controls


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Wanted to make this top to discuss the housing rules surrounding the rules relating to the prices and time frames set. I feel the rules are counter productive if the goal is to put more houses on the market. Some people don't like when you compare GTA World to real world dynamics because they think you are taking the game to seriously but this server operates on a scale where you can compare it to real life and IRL history has shown Price controls don't work. In real life price controls create even worse shortages and if people have to chose between selling something at a loss and not selling it at all which do you think they are going to chose.

The changes not too long ago allowing for unlimited price after 6 months is a marginal improvement but all its done is we've gone for people hoarding houses since they couldn't get the price they want to people having to wait 6 months to sell it for the price there want. House prices have become so removed from the market price you have no choice to wait 6 months to sell your house even if you would of be willing to sell it earlier because you don't want to take a massive loss. I have a house on a account I would sold months ago but the market price is so low I will take a massive loss if I don't want the 6 months and I would just want to break even. 

Here is the truth there will always be a shortage of houses and they will always be expensive but I think the current rules are making it worse in my opinion. We just have an insane amount of money in the game economy and their aren't that many houses in comparison to the demand from the player base oppose to the SAMP map where you had LV, SF,LS and Red County all filled with houses. My suggestion is remove as many restrictions as possible to make it as quick as possible for players to sell their houses for whatever price they want. You think this server is the first entity ever to think of the idea "things are getting too expensive lets set the price ourselves" It doesn't work. Let me know what you think.

Edit: To clarify I am not advocating for the removal of ALL restrictions I just think a better balance could be achieved. Like for example reducing the time from say 6 months to 3 months where a person can sell a property for any price. 

Edited by Power
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  • Power changed the title to Effectiveness of Housing Price Controls

Except in extremely tense areas (like Sandy or Paleto), it was pretty easy to find an apartment at a reasonable price. Very much unlike the 500k+ I was asked for a simple 2-room place back when those rules didn't exist, in fact. So... "it doesn't work", well so far I've reached the litteral opposite conclusion so I'm not sure where this is coming from 😛 

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30 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

Except in extremely tense areas (like Sandy or Paleto), it was pretty easy to find an apartment at a reasonable price. Very much unlike the 500k+ I was asked for a simple 2-room place back when those rules didn't exist, in fact. So... "it doesn't work", well so far I've reached the litteral opposite conclusion so I'm not sure where this is coming from 😛 

I am specifically talking Houses not Apartments. You can theoretically make an unlimited supply of apartments so that isn't the issue. If a person asked for a million doesn't mean anyone is going to pay it. 

 

Edited by Power
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Not interested in seeing 10+ million dollar trailers and houses, which is exactly what will happen if you remove these controls. Sellers have asked and buyers have already paid 3 million for a house in Mirror Park. If they ask, someone WILL pay. You can’t take the chains off an economy and a community that has zero concept of money or self-control. There's no risk in spending monopoly money, so real life can't even be brought into the argument.
 

There are a finite amount of actual houses on the map, to which we probably already outnumber based on server population. Taking price controls off will eventually lead to the same supply issue we have now, except houses will cost exponentially higher. Every house would sell for millions. The same group of people who can actually afford these house are going to be the only ones buying them, thus shutting out anyone who isn't a millionaire or a long-standing player who's accumulated such wealth over time. That $200,000 starter money won’t even make a dent on a new character when houses cost millions and millions of dollars. If you don’t think the prices will go there if left unchecked, you’d be incredibly naive. On the surface, this might make sense. However if you look at it through a long-term lens this will only lead to the same inevitable supply and demand issue but instead of houses having some measure of control, everything will cost millions and more.

Edited by Brofessor
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1 hour ago, Brofessor said:

Not interested in seeing 10+ million dollar trailers and houses, which is exactly what will happen if you remove these controls. Sellers have asked and buyers have already paid 3 million for a house in Mirror Park. If they ask, someone WILL pay. You can’t take the chains off an economy and a community that has zero concept of money or self-control. There's no risk in spending monopoly money, so real life can't even be brought into the argument.
 

There are a finite amount of actual houses on the map, to which we probably already outnumber based on server population. Taking price controls off will eventually lead to the same supply issue we have now, except houses will cost exponentially higher. Every house would sell for millions. The same group of people who can actually afford these house are going to be the only ones buying them, thus shutting out anyone who isn't a millionaire or a long-standing player who's accumulated such wealth over time. That $200,000 starter money won’t even make a dent on a new character when houses cost millions and millions of dollars. If you don’t think the prices will go there if left unchecked, you’d be incredibly naive. On the surface, this might make sense. However if you look at it through a long-term lens this will only lead to the same inevitable supply and demand issue but instead of houses having some measure of control, everything will cost millions and more.

The issue with your argument is that people can wait 6 months and charge what ever they want and we have not have 10 million dollar houses for the houses that have come on the market. The only thing removing the restrictions would change how often those houses would be on the market since people wouldn't have to wait those 6 months. The idea that the property rules as they are written now is whats stopping 10 million dollars doesn't make sense. 

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furniture cost is a major issue for various reasons in itself:

-it serves solely as money drain with no benefitial

-it encourages mappers to spend money on unneeded stuff (as it makes them more money if they charge by rules)

-and it's completely detached from the rp setting- a crappy, but well decorated place with a lot of items will have its value drastically increased even if -literally- the deco is trash.

 

for the roleplay scenery AND mapper's motivation (e-money talks, no matter if you then pretend ic to not have as much) it'd be more benefitial to scrap prices on items, and in return allow mappers to charge their prices -the market will sort itself here I am pretty certain, there is quite a lot of talented people out there and some with outstanding work who will get their sky-prices regardless, as they're worth it.

Ultimately mapping might even get cheaper for those requiring it, as they have to pay only their designers, opposed to also dump money in items.

 

And while that is speculation- demand will always be higher than available mappers- , it's safe to assume mapping quality would over all increase if mappers could focus on their core task (that being, creating the ideally fitting interior for a roleplay scenery, may it be home or business or other stuff), opposed to have to count pennies to not spend more than X on items to ensure X+ 2.5x X = budget.

 

2 hours ago, Power said:

I am specifically talking Houses not Apartments.

What further complicates things for the housing market is that we run parallel lines here:

There's the "free" market, i.e. properties that may be freely traded between players, if certain circumstances are met. Often enough paid by money someone "does not have ic", but keeps as "rp resource", something which for whatever reason isn't prohibited.

 

On the other hand there is house applications, which are restricted from being traded- for better and worse:

Yes, this ensures no speculation happens with these objects, and it also ensures to a degree characters will be getting houses in a "fitting" area.

 

However, it does not prevent speculation as a whole, just for these specific houses- result: We have people speculating with trailers, and house-seekers typically unable to even look ic (unless you want Canals, Mirror Park or Paleto Bay), even if you actually are a wealthy character in need.

 

Similarly, it's no full guarantee the community as a whole will agree character X "deserves" house Y, no matter where it's located:

It's ultimately an arbitrary decision made by a handful of people (pm), and no matter if rich or poor, there's always gonna be someone who thinks their portrayal of the desired lifestyle is "more real" than others who have a house when they don't.

Finding consensus on this is practically impossible , no matter how decisions are taken- they'll be right for some and wrong for others.

 

3 hours ago, Power said:

My suggestion is remove as many restrictions as possible to make it as quick as possible for players to sell their houses for whatever price they want. You think this server is the first entity ever to think of the idea "things are getting too expensive lets set the price ourselves" It doesn't work. Let me know what you think

The problem with full de-regulation:

Even when we don't have the infamous savings-system to further reward having money financially, the economy is ultimately buildt up so people accumulate money over time (unless, ironically enough , they actually play rich characters which warrant rich spending on baubles).

With a frequent mindset of money not being in character, but an ooc rp resource, this obviously puts newer players and those not chasing the e-dollar on ooc grounds to have vast "resources" at a disadvantage- and there's literally no way around it in the current design, as even hanging out in prison (!) grants you an unemployment check every hour.

Some might charity it , for sure, but it's safe to assume those are an absolute minority.

 

 

deregulation will not work in this economy unless we force the hidden ooc-Scrooges to build money bins we can try to rob like the beagle boys.

The market won't clean itself as some will keep accumulating money, while others will keep spending (and thus accumulate slower, if at all, even if in the game setting being received as richer as they actually DO spend money without to expect immanent revenue as some others do- who naturally will end up richer).

And while that might "realistic", other -unrealistic- stuff breaks any attempt of a realistic simulation, flipping cars being more profitable than anything else for example.

 

12 minutes ago, Power said:

The issue with your argument is that people can wait 6 months and charge what ever they want

Here I am in high agreement on this specific point though:

The 6-months-restriction serves absolutely no purpose.

The idea is that people only buy stuff they need to rp with -ha, ha, ha.

It doesn't work out as people WILL speculate on profit with whatever they can find, that's just as it is - and the limited access to houses only ensures this goes into other markets where realistically it would not happen -irl you don't just find noobs willing to pay 10x the market price for your guns as they know no one in a faction ic, lol.

 

As such- prime example given with the infamous million-dollar-shack not even having furniture recently- it is evident the 6 month rule does not in any way encourage roleplay, all it serves is to postpone speculation - and thus, effectively witholds properties from the market for those who would seriously want it just for the rp (as speculators are forced to just keep it back for 6 months and ideally not ever rp with it not risking to spend money on it or , beware, developing a character that has a life and lives there).

 

What the rule fails to take in account is that people who want a certain place to roleplay, will keep it anyway as long as they play that character.

Naturally, as the alleged intention of the rule is to enable just that, it should be adapted to serve this market more- and opening sales also after NOT holding onto a property for months will definitely do that.

If someone tries to openly just speculate pm can still crack down on them (see the recent million-dollar-shack).

The 6-months-rule does the opposite, however, and only serves to ensure these properties will only be on the market after months, effectively being just out of use ic (while being highly limited in the case of houses!).

Edited by knppel
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27 minutes ago, Power said:

The issue with your argument is that people can wait 6 months and charge what ever they want and we have not have 10 million dollar houses for the houses that have come on the market. The only thing removing the restrictions would change how often those houses would be on the market since people wouldn't have to wait those 6 months. The idea that the property rules as they are written now is whats stopping 10 million dollars doesn't make sense. 

That's because not everyone wants to wait 6 months to sell their property, nor do all characters even make it that far into their development before a name change or the player behind the character gets bored. You remove that barrier? Everyone will sell their house for top dollar because they can and they don't have to wait 6 months to do it. It's a pretty simple concept. It will only end in a worse situation than we're in now. We've already seen it in the past, which is why the controls were implemented in the first place. It will happen again and at an even faster rate if all controls were removed.

Edited by Brofessor
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Trailers and houses in the county should just be done through PM. That'll allow every player a chance with the correct price fitting to their character.

 

The rest should just be free market on my opinion. We are just with so many people and houses are becoming rare. 

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10 minutes ago, dionkoffie said:

We are just with so many people and houses are becoming rare. 

This won't change with a free market though. We're only getting more people on the server so the issue of supply and demand will always be there, even if its a free market. Houses will still run out eventually and their price will skyrocket even more. It's not going to solve the issue at hand. It's just going to make the economy even more messed up than it is now.

Edited by Brofessor
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