Unpopular Opinion: The Thread

[pateuvasiliu]

3 minutes ago, bartman said:

The poll does matter?

It doesn't, because it assumes all players on the server voted in it. Your poll says it's a 60-40 split when in reality EU peak time has 700 players and US peak time has 400 players. That's NOT a 60-40 split. The peak server time is EU evenings and that's what the server should cater to.

 

3 minutes ago, bartman said:

The entire argument is everyone who isn't playing in Europe doesn't see any sunlight

And changing the server time further into the atlantic would mean people in Europe wouldn't see night time, which brings far more RP avenues.

 

3 minutes ago, bartman said:

GMT-2 or -3 would make peak server time 5-10PM

It gets dark around 8-9 PM, that would already be 10-11 PM for GMT people and as late as 2 AM for East Europe. We would only get to do night time RP on weekends, which isn't acceptable considering we make the VAST majority of the population.

 

3 minutes ago, bartman said:

Again, GMT+3 hardly represents where most of the European playerbase is

If you're going to throw all Americans into the same pot despite them being spread over 4 Timezones I'm going to do the same with Europe.

Edited June 10, 2022 by pateuvasiliu

[peasoup]

It's actually a good thing that IC politics actually affect almost nothing on the server and no one cares, because they're complete nonsense.

[bartman]

8 minutes ago, pateuvasiliu said:

It doesn't, because it assumes all players on the server voted in it. Your poll says it's a 60-40 split when in reality EU peak time has 700 players and US peak time has 400 players. That's NOT a 60-40 split. The peak server time is EU evenings and that's what the server should cater to.

 

 

"EU Peak Time" at 8PM is 3-5PM EST, when many East coast players are also logging in, particularly on weekends. By 9-10PM server time a lot of Americans are logged in too. You can not claim the 700 players is 100% Europeans. Just like not all of the 400-500 players on during US peak is all Americans.

 

As for "all players voted", this is why I asked for statistics, not just a poll, though the poll is relevant in having an idea.

 

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And changing the server time further into the atlantic would mean people in Europe wouldn't see night time, which brings far more RP avenues.

 

Very eastern european blocks, perhaps, but again, I'm not sure how this is entirely relevant. GMT-2 would even be a marked improvement without being as negative towards eastern europe.

 

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It gets dark around 8-9 PM, that would already be 10-11 PM for GMT people and as late as 2 AM for East Europe. We would only get to do night time RP on weekends, which isn't acceptable considering we make the VAST majority of the population.

 
Again, I refuse to accept Europeans are the "VAST MAJORITY" of the population without statistics.  This isn't LSRP.

 

Also you are aware they can adjust what time in game it gets dark, yeah?

 

 

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If you're going to throw all Americans into the same pot despite them being spread over 4 Timezones I'm going to do the same with Europe.

 

I'd bet $20 on that there's more players on GMT-7 or GMT-8 than GMT+3. Statistics would, again, be an important differentiation in identifying where a 'middle point' can go, if anywhere.

 

The idea should, again, to evaluate where players actually are and try to cater to as many as possible. It may not be "middle of the atlantic", it may be as simple as GMT-1. I'm sorry that looking at this is a scary concept to some.

 

Server management could, if they wanted, relatively easily figure out where most players are and literally plot it all into a map that'd show us where the "average" GTAW player is. The timezone should be set to that point. If that's in Europe? I'll eat my words, but I'd bet it's closer to somewhere between GMT-1 and GMT-4

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by bartman

[pateuvasiliu]

Just now, bartman said:

"EU Peak Time" at 8PM is 3-5PM EST, when most East coast players are also logging in

Doubt? At 3-5 PM you're not even back home from work, not to mention dinner. Peak time for American RP communities is usually 8PM of whatever timezone you're in.

 

1 minute ago, bartman said:

GMT-2 would even be a marked improvement without being as negative eastern europe.

 

It would be negative. I'm 3 hours ahead right now, you're asking for 5. 8PM would become 1 AM, that's simply not acceptable.

 

2 minutes ago, bartman said:

Again, I refuse to accept Europeans are the "VAST MAJORITY" of the population without statistics

Then do /players at 9PM server time and then again in 5 hours. It's really not a hard thing to test.

 

2 minutes ago, bartman said:

I'd bet $20 on that there's more players on GMT-7 or GMT-8 than GMT+3

There sure as hell are more in GMT 0 - 3 than in GMT -5 -> -7

[bartman]

9 minutes ago, pateuvasiliu said:

Doubt? At 3-5 PM you're not even back home from work, not to mention dinner. Peak time for American RP communities is usually 8PM of whatever timezone you're in.

 

Most of the playerbase is high school or college aged, so get home around 3-4PM local time. And many Americans will actually deliberately time to get on earlier in the day if possible because if they get on at 8PM it's literally 3-6AM server time.

 

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It would be negative. I'm 3 hours ahead right now, you're asking for 5. 8PM would become 1 AM, that's simply not acceptable.

 

I'm sorry you individually would be negatively affected by this, but you can't ask all non-European players to "make the sacrifice" for your benefit without at least convincing us it's mathematically the best timezone.

 

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Then do /players at 9PM server time and then again in 5 hours. It's really not a hard thing to test.

Yes, it is, see above. Americans generally deliberately log on earlier in the day whenever possible. It's always been like this. Hell I remember when I was school aged in LSRP/Owl/RCRP/etc that I'd log on right after school at 3PM my time because if I logged on at 7-9PM the server'd be dead. And those servers were a lot more Eurobased population wise, but over a decade of this happening you can't equate server time to "when it's only this timezone on", because most American players have this log on early function programmed.

 

And most American players have European friends; it's a lot easier for Americans to log in at 5PM to see their friends than ask their european friends to stay up till 2AM to see them. "Peak Time" being almost exclusively European really isn't something I buy without seeing stats of it.

 

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There sure as hell are more in GMT 0 - 3 than in GMT -5 -> -7

So, again, in theory if Server Management charted the timezone of every player, and drew a graph of where the average player would be, would you argue that's not fair because you personally wouldn't benefit from it?

Edited June 10, 2022 by bartman

[pateuvasiliu]

5 minutes ago, bartman said:

Yes, it is, see above. Americans generally deliberately log on earlier in the day whenever possible

That doesn't change the fact that 8-11 PM Server time is the prime time. Americans can log in earlier, sure, most Europeans can't go to bed at 5 AM to play at night.

It's just the luck of the draw that you're going to have to get used to. 

 

5 minutes ago, bartman said:

but you can't ask all non-European players to "make the sacrifice"

Sure I can, because we have cold hard numbers that show us the server has more activity at a certain hour. And that's the hour they should cater to.

 

5 minutes ago, bartman said:

I'd log on right after school at 3PM my time because if I logged on at 5-7PM the server'd be dead.

Sounds like a VERY GOOD reason to NOT cater to US timezones, then.

 

5 minutes ago, bartman said:

in theory if Server Management charted the timezone of every player, and drew a graph of where the average player would be, would you argue that's not fair because you personally wouldn't benefit from it?

Server Management could do that, sure, and they might even get a GMT -2 as an average, but that doesn't change the fact that American players can log in earlier while EU players can't stay up later due to sleep being more important than an early dinner. 

If the majority of US players are indeed in High School/College and can log in at 3PM then they'll be fine. By the time midnight hits for you it'll be daylight.

Edited June 10, 2022 by pateuvasiliu

[joshua]

why are ppl getting so mad and defensive about whether or not the fucking server map has sun or not. i agree that we've been using this time structure for like 4+ years so sure it might be time for a change to let each player see a different time than they do now. it literally changes nothing. no one cares about "realistic opening times", no one is gonna press you because you're opening something at a time that is unusual irl. most people open at whatever time they want based on what times they can play or what time has the most people on the server, which won't change just because the in-game time does.

[pateuvasiliu]

Just now, joshua said:

why are ppl getting so mad and defensive about whether or not the fucking server map has sun or not

Because don't fix what ain't broken.

[bartman]

6 minutes ago, pateuvasiliu said:

That doesn't change the fact that 8-11 PM Server time is the prime time. Americans can log in earlier, sure, most Europeans can't go to bed at 5 AM to play at night.

Okay, now you're strawmanning. The point of the suggestion is to roll the prime time back 2-3 hours to where it'd benefit more players. Most Europeans are on GMT-0 or GMT+1 and would hardly feel this imo.

West coast Americans would still be just as screwed as Moscow timed europeans, but we can make it benefit the maximum amount of people possible - that spot between GMT+1 and GMT-5 where most of the players are likely living.

 

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Sure I can, because we have cold hard numbers that show us the server has more activity at a certain hour. And that's the hour they should cater to.

Again, strawman.

 

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Sounds like a VERY GOOD reason to NOT cater to US timezones, then.

Did you miss the part where "server'd be dead" was on LSRP and RCRP, or did you deliberately misquote me? GTAW has different expectations where the playerbase is still active later, but everyone on 'later' never sees sunlight.

 

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Server Management could do that, sure, and they might even get a GMT -2 as an average, but that doesn't change the fact that American players can log in earlier while EU players can't stay up later due to sleep being more important than an early dinner. 

 

American players logging in earlier still only get maybe an hour of sun, if any at all, because 4-5PM EST is still 8-10PM server time. They do this to be on when their European friends are, not because they get more sun, lol. No one's asking to change that. Peak time wouldn't be nuked if it was rolled back two hours, it'd just contain a more dynamic mix of night and day.

 

I am immensely sorry you personally would be disadvantaged by this, but it doesn't mean it's not worth looking into. Management's stance of "lol no" without even offering any real argument outside of "50% of players are European" has been a stifling point for non-euro players for years.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by bartman

[bartman]

9 minutes ago, joshua said:

why are ppl getting so mad and defensive about whether or not the fucking server map has sun or not. i agree that we've been using this time structure for like 4+ years so sure it might be time for a change to let each player see a different time than they do now. it literally changes nothing. no one cares about "realistic opening times", no one is gonna press you because you're opening something at a time that is unusual irl. most people open at whatever time they want based on what times they can play or what time has the most people on the server, which won't change just because the in-game time does.

It's really not about opening times, sure it helps, but it's the fact that day vs night offers fundamentally different and differently engaging playstyles and RP opportunities. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I am saying it's worth looking into.

 

Playing at night virtually nonstop for years has led to people I know literally saying they can't play for more than 2-3 hours at a time because unless they're in some kind of action, it borderline tries putting you to sleep. That's just the natural reaction to staring at night for hours every time you log in with no break.

 

Asking server management to take a serious look at where players actually are and see if there's any way to make the time zone more closely represent where people actually are shouldn't be seen as a cardinal sin.

Edited June 10, 2022 by bartman