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Unpopular Opinion: The Thread


Message added by Nightmare Night,
  On 5/13/2022 at 10:38 PM, Nightmare Night said:

Hey guys, if this thread continues in discussion of factions, it's going to be locked and archived. It's just faction bashing at this point with no constructive criticism, just pointless opinions to flame at factions they don't agree with. Continue with other topics.

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On 3/24/2022 at 12:19 AM, DLimit said:

You can converse on the phone with zero hands on loudspeaker. An accomplice can also converse and text on the phone while another person drives. 

 

On 3/24/2022 at 12:22 AM, Koko said:

 

The vast majority of people under the age of 30 I know have their phone constantly hooked up to their car's Bluetooth system and constantly use their phone while driving with voice commands. You can call anyone without lifting your hands off the wheel in the year 2022.

 

If this is a text server, giving police the one-sided advantage of using voice to circumvent the limitations of a text-server makes no sense as a premise given how a criminal could just as easily have a hands-free conversation behind the wheel, it's just the accepted reality because it's historically been this way.

 

 

Yes.

 

And IRL police has facial recognition, a crime database, cellphone tracing, and other things on their cellphones. The newest cars in the LAPD fleet have access to "trace darts" which literally shoot a GPS tracker on someone's car, allowing for remote tracing of vehicle suspects without endangering the public by having 6 officers in a pursuit line. There are tons of other things that police have access to in 2022 IRL that we do not portray here. Some of those we shouldn't, some of those we should (my opinion). It's ridiculous that we are banned from using any form of facial recognition software because some previous head of LFM thought it was unfair even though you had a clear stillshot picture of someone's face with a camera and compared it with a picture of someone's mugshot. 

 

Just because one concept exists in real life doesn't mean we have to portray it. This has been established time and time again on this server by limiting real technology for the sake of balance. Furthermore, most shootouts you die in won't be a CK, and you can respawn over and over and over. Jail times don't last ten years like they do in real life- The highest you can get short of a life sentence is twenty days. And that requires you to have committed a murder in the first degree IC, or another combination of charges.

 

 

I am all for giving criminals voice chat. However, give some, take some. Giving criminals voice chat also means giving cops something in return in the interest of balance. Voice chat will make it insanely more easier for a single criminal to evade police and set up an ambush. Yet if the criminals set up an ambush and get blasted, they get PKed and can do the same thing a day later (Assuming they'd have the guns). So. You set up an ambush and die? That's a CK.

 

 

Also, neither of those quotes explain how you're going to pay attention to your phone in order to open your contacts and call someone while driving 100 MPH.

Edited by BjornV
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To be honest I would sooner be in favor of getting rid of VC for law enforcement than expanding it to illegal RPers. Simply because voice chat already detracts from the roleplay experience in my honest opinion. I understand the purpose behind it being you can’t type and update a pursuit at the same time, but it still creates a very OOC culture in the LEO factions and people spend a lot of time talking OOC in TS rather than roleplaying with one another in game. That is just from my prior experience though.

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36 minutes ago, BjornV said:

Also, neither of those quotes explain how you're going to pay attention to your phone in order to open your contacts and call someone while driving 100 MPH.

I'm not entirely for voice chat for all, and if it were reasonable to do so I'd rather take away TeamSpeak and nobody had it; however any phone with apple car play or the android version has access to voice commands.  I can have Siri call people through my Bluetooth in my bike helmet for me, or if I'm in my brothers car I can either do it through Siri or I can tap through my contacts on the dash if I am struggling to get Siri to understand my accent.  

 

This is not, brand new tech that nobody on the street can obtain, most people who can afford a $60 a month phone bill have it in their pockets already, and have had it since the early days of the smartphone.

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51 minutes ago, TheSenate said:

To be honest I would sooner be in favor of getting rid of VC for law enforcement than expanding it to illegal RPers. Simply because voice chat already detracts from the roleplay experience in my honest opinion. I understand the purpose behind it being you can’t type and update a pursuit at the same time, but it still creates a very OOC culture in the LEO factions and people spend a lot of time talking OOC in TS rather than roleplaying with one another in game. That is just from my prior experience though.

This basically sums it up. Going after "realism" to justify who has VC and who doesn't is doomed to failure, especially since the "LEO have VC but not the rest" are rules that were inherited over 10+ years from one SAMP server to the next. Except something like 15 years have passed since then 😕 The only reason why it's allowed is because previous servers allowed it. 

 

Best fixes are to allow for all, or none. I'd more of a proponent of the latter, since monitoring a ton of voice chats is impossible, and having seen how OOC voice chat cliques can be a toxic shitfest for a server 😕 

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21 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

This basically sums it up. Going after "realism" to justify who has VC and who doesn't is doomed to failure, especially since the "LEO have VC but not the rest" are rules that were inherited over 10+ years from one SAMP server to the next. Except something like 15 years have passed since then 😕 The only reason why it's allowed is because previous servers allowed it. 

 

Best fixes are to allow for all, or none. I'd more of a proponent of the latter, since monitoring a ton of voice chats is impossible, and having seen how OOC voice chat cliques can be a toxic shitfest for a server 😕 

 

"bUt YoU'Ll KiLl LeO Rp"

 

Oh. So that's what that feels like to say something like that.

 

Honestly, given the fact that LEO's only use it for pursuits, which is when it's actually plausible because of all the coordination necessary to route assets to a pursuits. And they probably can't depend on a helicopter anymore since FM decided that they're broken, and pretty soon I'm sure the powers that be will be decide they won't be allowed to hover over an active chase because it's not fair - it makes sense for them to keep VC for chases. Literally part of their job is to route backup into pursuits. 

 

We've gotten on this notion that there has to be a level playing field. And then be all like "Yo, realism first....." which what they really mean is, "Realism....unless I'm at a disadvantage. Then I don't want realism. I want it to be fair."

 

Criminals are at an inherent disadvantage IRL. It's already been waxed poetic by a dozen people in this thread so I'm not going to go into it.

 

If everyone got to voice chat with no consequence, you've dealt a serious blow to investigative bodies because wire taps go out the window. Because then they'll just voice chat with each other. And the wire taps don't pick that up. So they'll never be able to be used and thrown out later by an admin because it's not fair.

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My unpopular opinion: people who obviously only log in to erp are as bad as those who don't do any romantic interaction RP at all. Where are the realistic characters who have a main activity (job, gang, business, etc) a group of friends and romantic partners? 

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3 hours ago, BjornV said:

 

 

 

Yes.

 

And IRL police has facial recognition, a crime database, cellphone tracing, and other things on their cellphones. The newest cars in the LAPD fleet have access to "trace darts" which literally shoot a GPS tracker on someone's car, allowing for remote tracing of vehicle suspects without endangering the public by having 6 officers in a pursuit line. There are tons of other things that police have access to in 2022 IRL that we do not portray here. Some of those we shouldn't, some of those we should (my opinion). It's ridiculous that we are banned from using any form of facial recognition software because some previous head of LFM thought it was unfair even though you had a clear stillshot picture of someone's face with a camera and compared it with a picture of someone's mugshot. 

 

Just because one concept exists in real life doesn't mean we have to portray it. This has been established time and time again on this server by limiting real technology for the sake of balance. Furthermore, most shootouts you die in won't be a CK, and you can respawn over and over and over. Jail times don't last ten years like they do in real life- The highest you can get short of a life sentence is twenty days. And that requires you to have committed a murder in the first degree IC, or another combination of charges.

 

 

I am all for giving criminals voice chat. However, give some, take some. Giving criminals voice chat also means giving cops something in return in the interest of balance. Voice chat will make it insanely more easier for a single criminal to evade police and set up an ambush. Yet if the criminals set up an ambush and get blasted, they get PKed and can do the same thing a day later (Assuming they'd have the guns). So. You set up an ambush and die? That's a CK.

 

 

Also, neither of those quotes explain how you're going to pay attention to your phone in order to open your contacts and call someone while driving 100 MPH.

You're talking to a guy that would probably want all of this.

EDIT: "Alexa, call Quantavious" and there we go. In the end, I'm fine with the current system, and I'd probably be fine if we added everything mentioned, above. I'm here for the R.P., not to "win" anything.

Edited by DLimit
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6 minutes ago, DLimit said:

You're talking to a guy that would probably want all of this.

EDIT: "Alexa, call Quantavious" and there we go. In the end, I'm fine with the current system, and I'd probably be fine if we added everything mentioned, above. I'm here for the R.P., not to "win" anything.

Exactly. I'm fine with the current system. I'm fine with adding things on both sides.

 

I'd be for less voice chats, too! But a system needs be made to replace it otherwise. Rage's chat is extremely unresponsive and with most pursuits going at least 100 MPH, you're going to need a partner to type ANYTHING at all. Even then, by the time you finish typing 1 street name you'll be halfway across the city. There's no binds. No way to broadcast your location on the map except for /panic which puts 1 blip which stays stationary (It doesn't move with you). A different system could be to have a blip that updates every 5-10 seconds. 

 

But either way. Add or tone down on voice chat, systems need be put in place to alleviate issues that come with those additions/removals.

 

Even though I'd be in favor of having way more after the fact CKs enforced across the board as it stands today. For any party. If they even slightly do something unrealistic, or lack of fear RP, or they willingly put themselves in a situation they're likely to die (i.e. gunning at cops while outnumbered or cops pursuing criminals into a house filled with criminals who outnumber the cops)

 

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5 minutes ago, BjornV said:

Exactly. I'm fine with the current system. I'm fine with adding things on both sides.

 

I'd be for less voice chats, too! But a system needs be made to replace it otherwise. Rage's chat is extremely unresponsive and with most pursuits going at least 100 MPH, you're going to need a partner to type ANYTHING at all. Even then, by the time you finish typing 1 street name you'll be halfway across the city. There's no binds. No way to broadcast your location on the map except for /panic which puts 1 blip which stays stationary (It doesn't move with you). A different system could be to have a blip that updates every 5-10 seconds. 

 

But either way. Add or tone down on voice chat, systems need be put in place to alleviate issues that come with those additions/removals.

 

Even though I'd be in favor of having way more after the fact CKs enforced across the board as it stands today. For any party. If they even slightly do something unrealistic, or lack of fear RP, or they willingly put themselves in a situation they're likely to die (i.e. gunning at cops while outnumbered or cops pursuing criminals into a house filled with criminals who outnumber the cops)

 

As a person that has RP'd as a criminal, 90% of the time on this server, yet also has an LSSD character? I can assure you, metagaming isn't an issue. We usually don't use V.C. unless it's for pursuits, and everything is stated in-character rather than OOCly. Unsure about LSPD (Never been in that faction), but LSSD maintains high standards and are strict when it comes to V.C. abuse. People get discharged for metagaming, all the time. 

I think everything's fine, as it is, for now. I love taking Ls... good for development.

Edited by DLimit
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2 minutes ago, DLimit said:

As a person that has RP'd as a criminal, 90% of the time on this server, yet also has an LSSD character? I can assure you, metagaming isn't an issue. We usually don't use V.C. unless it's for pursuits, and everything is stated in-character rather than OOCly. Unsure about LSPD (Never been in that faction), but LSSD maintains high standards and are strict when it comes to V.C. abuse. People get discharged for metagaming, all the time. 

Metagaming isn't the issue with voice chat. It isn't an issue in PD. TAC channels are IC. Any other channel is OOC. Very rarely will something OOC be said in a TAC channel. Usually when an admin pauses a situation to notify of. Or if like the person flying the helicopter/main leading unit in the line disconnects

Edited by BjornV
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