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RICO and disbanding factions


BadassBaboon

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3 hours ago, ingenv said:

I would like to say that it would only improve the quality if illegal organizations were investigated for their mistakes and run the risk of being shut down due to several prison sentences, or too much information from DB's side. As it is now, guns is being pushed to the right and left in the public more or less, there's shootings in Vinewood which is supposed to be compared to Hollywood, illegal organizations are not afraid to be investigated properly as they never run the risk of being shut down for their organized crime.

 

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13 hours ago, sCrax said:

That's because of OOC reasons too. As soon as you take down the leaders they will not allow other members to take over and will just close the whole faction on their own. Then IFM will have to get involved and it all becomes an OOC shitshow where people hate each other because of IC events.

Sometimes, but not always. You can see in a lot of projects that a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of giving a faction a sense of direction, identity and weight ultimately comes down to a very small group of core members, and people don't know what to do with themselves if these people aren't around to move things forward.

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I wish this was already a part of the server, I really do. The fact is in order to really implement this idea into the server, there must be functional changes. Now I did read through a couple of concerns of other players and now seeing this discussion really gaining some serious attention, which makes me more hyped to see such RP involved with OCGs. As someone who's spending most of his time in OCGs, I can really say not a lot of factions pay attention to this side of the roleplay. The fear of law enforcement actually catching them is not really there anymore and I'm gonna be honest, the riskiest time as an OCG member who's in the top of the organization won't be anything more than traffic stops when you have an unlicensed gun. And that's it.  And of course there must be some uncertain times when you're in some riskier situations but that won't happen that much if you're now engaging into wars left and right. The point is, Law Enforcement at its current state is mostly consisting of shoot to kill mentality and actions related to the street level criminals and the organized crime division is not really affecting the illegal roleplayers of OCGs. Don't misjudge what I just said, I've seen some awesome Law enforcement RP'ers but what I'm trying to say is something fundamentally different. 

 

With something like this suggested thing, OCG leaders can actually feel a passive danger towards whatever they created in all these times of RPing in that faction, the things that can be vanished in the matter of seconds, which if you want my idea, is realistic. Gathering more attention towards the money laundering RP, creating the mindset of being a member of an OCG is not just about shooting people up and get high quality cocaine to sell it for more are just a few things can be affected by this. The heartbreaking fact (For some people) is that OCG members are just from normal people, between the daily citizens you might see in a bar, there might be a mafia boss. The fact of this passive danger can encourage most of the OCG members to get more motivated for passive RP which is rare to see these days, for some cases. 

 

The tricky part of implementing this idea is connected to the law enforcement officers who are actually working in these cases, the danger of actually MGing the members and information is always there, demanding more attention from the administration to monitor their movements just in case. The idea of this whole thing requires more time and passion from the officers involved, but also has just as the same amount of good reward must be a mindset for the involved people in these roleplays. New laws related to the RICO cases, both IC and OOC is another frustrating part but this thing as a whole can be revolutionary for both illegal and legal side. 

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To quote from my messages in the Great Debate Discord


It's a lot more difficult to do these things than people think. These investigations require essentially OOC cooperation and a mutual understanding between LEOs and the illegal factions which are being investigated. It is extremely uncommon for this to happen, people do not enjoy taking L's, never mind potentially leading to a shutdown of what you and your friends have sent the last few months of your life building. For some people (assumedly everyone posting here according to their support of RICO and injunctions) that's just how it is IC, and is fine, but for a lot more people they'd resist due to essentially wasting the last few months of their life developing a faction. How do you balance this with LEO's not being seen as play-to-win, an example can be when detectives have to PM people asking if they have fingerprints on a gun, they inherently give up the secrecy of their investigation OOC, if the player being messaged even responds. People will react ICly to these OOC factors to defend their character, where they stop logging in as a result of being OOCly aware of an investigation. Another already prominent example is that people don't snitch, we don't need to list off the millions of 14 year olds facing life but still decide loyalty to people they met IC a week ago is the right choice. It's been stated before that when people find out you're a IC snitch OOC, CKs tend to follow for any sort of reason, because they 'are acting suspicious'. As noted by others, the rate of attrition is extremely demotivating, many cases go cold due to OOC factors, such as voiding key evidence, main players getting banned or some other ramifications.

Edited by imi
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8 hours ago, Boland said:

YES, YOU SHOULD.

 

Not really. Why would you want to shut down a faction? All they're doing, after all, is providing role-play and character development. Even if you shut it down, all you're going to do is end the development of many people and, usually, some great stories. You're not fighting crime or whatever, those people will still role-play illegal characters and will simply start a different faction. And it's also pretty unrealistic - if many (or all) members of a mob or gang get busted, they'll either get out and continue doing their thing or whoever wasn't busted will keep it alive. Criminal groups don't just poof.

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On 2/6/2022 at 5:54 AM, Mahitto said:

Not really. Why would you want to shut down a faction? All they're doing, after all, is providing role-play and character development. Even if you shut it down, all you're going to do is end the development of many people and, usually, some great stories. You're not fighting crime or whatever, those people will still role-play illegal characters and will simply start a different faction. And it's also pretty unrealistic - if many (or all) members of a mob or gang get busted, they'll either get out and continue doing their thing or whoever wasn't busted will keep it alive. Criminal groups don't just poof.

Generally speaking if enough RP were to develop that results in the arrests of the top members of a criminal organization leading to a collapse of the group? Then it should be allowed to happen without any interference. That means enough was going on to warrant such a move by law enforcement and if the criminal organization was careless enough to let it happen? That's on them. As you said, they'll start another faction afterwards. Fine by me. More development. More great stories. I don't see the issue here. Granted, shutting down a faction shouldn't be the main goal. But if it does lead to that point on rare occasion? Let it happen. A couple people have already commented that it has once or twice already without RICO, so it's not actually necessary. You can't push groups and factions to get better & evolve if neither side never has anything to lose 🤷‍♂️

Edited by MasterChief
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On 2/4/2022 at 4:40 PM, imi said:

To quote from my messages in the Great Debate Discord


It's a lot more difficult to do these things than people think. These investigations require essentially OOC cooperation and a mutual understanding between LEOs and the illegal factions which are being investigated. It is extremely uncommon for this to happen, people do not enjoy taking L's, never mind potentially leading to a shutdown of what you and your friends have sent the last few months of your life building. For some people (assumedly everyone posting here according to their support of RICO and injunctions) that's just how it is IC, and is fine, but for a lot more people they'd resist due to essentially wasting the last few months of their life developing a faction. How do you balance this with LEO's not being seen as play-to-win, an example can be when detectives have to PM people asking if they have fingerprints on a gun, they inherently give up the secrecy of their investigation OOC, if the player being messaged even responds. People will react ICly to these OOC factors to defend their character, where they stop logging in as a result of being OOCly aware of an investigation. Another already prominent example is that people don't snitch, we don't need to list off the millions of 14 year olds facing life but still decide loyalty to people they met IC a week ago is the right choice. It's been stated before that when people find out you're a IC snitch OOC, CKs tend to follow for any sort of reason, because they 'are acting suspicious'. As noted by others, the rate of attrition is extremely demotivating, many cases go cold due to OOC factors, such as voiding key evidence, main players getting banned or some other ramifications.

It's actually not that difficult, you're making it difficult for yourself. Mutual understanding between LEOs and illegal factions can be easy moderated and controlled with rules. There will be no resisting in that case if rules are in place either, you're not careful and you'll end up taking the L. As for the OOC secrecy, the server needs to have a better system in place for investigations, one that is bug free as well, in your example, a script should be able to tell LEOs who used the weapon last time, if gloves where used then no print would be on it, prints would disappear after 2 days, etc... Also snitching will become more prominent once everybody is aware that a RICO law/rule exists, and there is a sad truth where people MG these information to CK an informant, and the best solution for that is for them to keep OOC secrecy as best as they can. Overall, if a decent system is in place for investigators, one that doesn't give them PG'ed information like before for the evidence to get discarded, as well as OOC and IC RICO laws and rules, investigations will go on and nobody would get demotivated.

 

On 2/6/2022 at 7:30 AM, khaled said:

too many p2w cops cant be trusted 

That's why I suggested a division with selective members that are picked either via applications or the management.

 

On 2/6/2022 at 2:24 PM, Mahitto said:

 

Not really. Why would you want to shut down a faction? All they're doing, after all, is providing role-play and character development. Even if you shut it down, all you're going to do is end the development of many people and, usually, some great stories. You're not fighting crime or whatever, those people will still role-play illegal characters and will simply start a different faction. And it's also pretty unrealistic - if many (or all) members of a mob or gang get busted, they'll either get out and continue doing their thing or whoever wasn't busted will keep it alive. Criminal groups don't just poof.

Illegal factions need to understand there should be a risk when dealing drugs, selling weapons, running prostitutions rings, extorting people and killing people. Sure those provide great roleplay and character development, but what about precautions? If they're not careful, if they're not smart enough, if they get investigated, and if enough incriminating evidence can be collected to shut them down? it's entirely their own fault for mismanagement, also do note there were a lot of ifs. Your exact goal is to fight crime, that's what LEOs are meant to do. Sure, if ALL members of a mob or a gang get busted and taken away, the faction was clearly not being ran correctly, but that's always %0.1 of the cases, granted that LEOs will target more dangerous organized crimes for their investigations rather than some gang of checkered shirts from Davis, that won't even happen at all. Like I mentioned before, the remnants of a RICO'ed faction should still be allowed to operate but on a much smaller scale, such as a crew or an unorganized group until they can solidify themselves as an established faction again, perhaps under another name and banner, or just go ahead and make a new faction.

Edited by BadassBaboon
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