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RICO and disbanding factions


BadassBaboon

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33 minutes ago, Phased said:

I can't speak for every member of an LEO faction, but I would personally be happy arresting every person in a crime, and pushing racketeering when it's relevant, but I have absolutely no interest in killing off peoples factions based on that.  I'd rather see these factions go through the loss of their hierarchy and others stepping in to fill the gaps than see people getting forced off a concept they were really enjoying because a percentage of said faction was gone.   

 

In real life, even if you took out the entire hierarchy of an OCG, or the entire regional leadership of a multi-chapter motorcycle club there would still be new people taking the reigns straight after and if we don't afford people those opportunities the server will just be closer to cops and robbers, with end goals of investigations being to shut down other peoples roleplay.

I'm pretty sure this is how the RICO would work anyway. Some members would 100 percent fall through the cracks and be allowed to try and reorganize the faction. I don't think it was ever considered to completely remove the concept from the server and if it was? Then I fully agree with you.

 

I'd also like to point that anybody that roleplays efficiently would fully understand their faction being closed, or atleast partially destroyed by a RICO act. IC is IC and do not feel bad about taking down a faction. If there's complaints because they want to keep hold of their precious official faction; they weren't exactly top notch roleplayers either way.

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3 hours ago, RoseCross said:


I think everybody forgot the fact that the Major Crimes Bureau in LSSD, closed down a faction last year, without the use of RICO.
Magellan Avenue Crew was investigated for several months, leading to several people jumping the ship and becoming Confidential Informants.
After several leadership figures got sentenced for Drug trafficking and murder charges, the rest went AFK and the faction leadership closed the curtains.

I my self was part of this investigation and am currently still working OCG's, and to say that nobody really is touching them anymore, because another said LEO faction messed up, is wrong imo. Our OOC goal is not to shut down factions, but in character wise, that is my job and I'm doing my best to get as many behind bars as I can.

ORGANIZED crime should be that, ORGANIZED. If you truly are organized and go beyond to cover your tracks, no Rico law will be able to touch you. I believe it would bring an incentive for factions to be more secretive and less public with their business (even if they already are doing that on an acceptable level).

I'm for it, but even if it does not come through, we'll be doing our jobs.

 

That is true and correct. However, one successful case on a group can't make up for 10 unsuccessful ones, in the long run. Though, when there's a successful case, I'm sure every player regardless of the side is hyped on the development side, as well as looking forward for the outcome. On the other hand, the faction that is being investigated should enjoy being investigated, otherwise, it becomes unenjoyable for all the parties involved. The way I see it, all comes down to the mindset you have. 


RICO, imo, should be used as a last resort, and be monitored closely by FM. We have factions that in theory would represent an international threat (transnational organized crime) due to their nature, lore and history so it'd only make sense that a bigger entity/law is used to combat them (doesn't have to be RICO but it's a start). I've studied a bit on that one for my college when I bumped into a few interesting articles from DHS or DOJ. Now I know we don't have such structure to properly create a similar environment but that doesn't mean we can't have it on a smaller scale to fit our continuity and LEO factions that we currently have. RICO would allow to investigate someone just by being associated with a group, and having a similar pattern/behavior in a certain activity. A bunch of RICO offenses already happen on the server i.e money laundering, extortion etc. The goal shouldn't be to shut down factions, that's just a poor mindset. The goal should be providing a realistic and high quality investigation as a result of certain actions made by X Y Z individuals. (long term ofc)

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19 hours ago, Phased said:

I can't speak for every member of an LEO faction, but I would personally be happy arresting every person in a crime, and pushing racketeering when it's relevant, but I have absolutely no interest in killing off peoples factions based on that.  I'd rather see these factions go through the loss of their hierarchy and others stepping in to fill the gaps than see people getting forced off a concept they were really enjoying because a percentage of said faction was gone.   

 

In real life, even if you took out the entire hierarchy of an OCG, or the entire regional leadership of a multi-chapter motorcycle club there would still be new people taking the reigns straight after and if we don't afford people those opportunities the server will just be closer to cops and robbers, with end goals of investigations being to shut down other peoples roleplay.

Yes and no. When talking about an OCG, leadership is a leadership, cause they got there somehow, If you take it out, the org will fall into infighting and crumble.

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1 hour ago, Engelbert said:

Yes and no. When talking about an OCG, leadership is a leadership, cause they got there somehow, If you take it out, the org will fall into infighting and crumble.

Yeah, based on my memory, several CIA and FBI handbooks assert that it only requires removing the top 5 in-command to dismantle an organization.

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3 minutes ago, DLimit said:

Yeah, based on my memory, several CIA and FBI handbooks assert that it only requires removing the top 5 in-command to dismantle an organization.

 

This is true to the server too. Most factions/groups are essentially carried by a small core of members and factions quickly crumble when they're absent.

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5 minutes ago, Koko said:

 

This is true to the server too. Most factions/groups are essentially carried by a small core of members and factions quickly crumble when they're absent.

That's because of OOC reasons too. As soon as you take down the leaders they will not allow other members to take over and will just close the whole faction on their own. Then IFM will have to get involved and it all becomes an OOC shitshow where people hate each other because of IC events.

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18 hours ago, Invictus said:

The goal shouldn't be to shut down factions, that's just a poor mindset. The goal should be providing a realistic and high quality investigation as a result of certain actions made by X Y Z individuals. (long term ofc)

 

Wouldn't the goal of the investigators be to shut down criminal enterprise through investigation. I mean if it's not, then you're probably not a very good investigator. Generally speaking a low quality investigation isn't going to lead anywhere. But the result of a high quality one is convictions, unless they go to FM who voids all the evidence because it's not fair, apparently.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

 

Wouldn't the goal of the investigators be to shut down criminal enterprise through investigation. I mean if it's not, then you're probably not a very good investigator. 

The IC goal is to shut down criminal enterprise, OOCly detectives do not attempt to shut down any faction. Our only goal (speaking as a sergeant in a detective bureau) is to provide high quality investigative roleplay for both LEOs and the faction being investigated to enjoy. Many people here are missing that fact, they would denounce play-to-win cops who hate illegal roleplay OOCly and do all they can to shut down all avenues of illegal roleplay but then question why detectives aren't dedicating their time to shutting down a faction ICly (which always has ramifications to OOC).

Edited by imi
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11 minutes ago, imi said:

The IC goal is to shut down criminal enterprise, OOCly detectives do not attempt to shut down any faction. Our only goal (speaking as a sergeant in a detective bureau) is to provide high quality investigative roleplay for both LEOs and the faction being investigated to enjoy. Many people here are missing that fact, they would denounce play-to-win cops who hate illegal roleplay OOCly and do all they can to shut down all avenues of illegal roleplay but then question why detectives aren't dedicating their time to shutting down a faction ICly (which always has ramifications to OOC).

No, as a detective, I completely agree. The point I was trying to make is that it's a little obtuse to insinuate that a detective shouldn't be trying to shut down a criminal organization. The character should be without question. And it's sometimes it's a little demotivating OOC when the people who are being investigated, and are dead to rights in character seek OOC means to get out of their IC trouble.

 

With the way this server is, if LEOs wanted to shut down factions, they'd put in undercovers. They'd be down in a month or less. And OOC feelings would get hurt because "I thought you were cool" or whatever. But it's not feasible nor completely realistic for a local LEO to do that. But then again we have no real state or federal agencies that would. 

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I would like to say that it would only improve the quality if illegal organizations were investigated for their mistakes and run the risk of being shut down due to several prison sentences, or too much information from DB's side. As it is now, guns is being pushed to the right and left in the public more or less, there's shootings in Vinewood which is supposed to be compared to Hollywood, illegal organizations are not afraid to be investigated properly as they never run the risk of being shut down for their organized crime.

 

One could argue that people will cry OOC but is that not part of the game? I myself would appreciate if there was a significant pressure from the police aka DB during my time as an organized criminal member, and it would only raise realism and make people rp more cautiously, and more realistically.

 

 

Edited by ingenv
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