Jump to content

RICO and disbanding factions


BadassBaboon

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Trupiano said:

I think a lot of you guys are getting tied up in the details. We don’t need to introduce some form of federal law enforcement or figure out a bridge between state and federal law for RICO. We can just suspend our disbelief and have it run through state level and it works fine.

I think this here is quite important, not just for RICO but the server in general.

 

The question we should ask ourselves maybe isn't "how does RICO work IRL?" but "how would a RICO-like system serve the server's RP". If a RICO or RICO-like system has a use for the server, then making it fully "like IRL" is not that interesting or useful. As long as it's done in a believable way, I don't think too many relevant people will care if it's federal or state-wide, seriously ^^' 

And if it turns out a RICO-like system is considered bad for the server, then... whether it's federal or not becomes completely irrelevant. In either case, the "federal or not?" question isn't that pertinent ^^' 

Edited by Topinambour
Link to comment
22 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

I think this here is quite important, not just for RICO but the server in general.

 

The question we should ask ourselves maybe isn't "how does RICO work IRL?" but "how would a RICO-like system serve the server's RP". If a RICO or RICO-like system has a use for the server, then making it fully "like IRL" is not that interesting or useful. As long as it's done in a believable way, I don't think too many relevant people will care if it's federal or state-wide, seriously ^^' 

And if it turns out a RICO-like system is considered bad for the server, then... whether it's federal or not becomes completely irrelevant. In either case, the "federal or not?" question isn't that pertinent ^^' 

People seem to think that “enacting RICO” somehow entirely removes an organization, group or faction. It’s not like the feds just slap RICO onto something and the people involved evaporate into nothing. Police in game unofficially disband groups all the time.

Link to comment
9 hours ago, GamerX said:

 

Establish Federal Gov RP? Make a contract ICly to maintain jurisdiction between state and federal law. For example if the crime supersedes states law into a federal level. That's when the Federal Government should step in, if you catch my drift?

Spoiler

Federal law and state law live next to eachother. They aren't different levels- Specific federal acts bind the states and most articles of the US Constitutions bind the states- Not all do.

Almost every state has their own variant of "RICO" legislation. Various other things which are banned "Nation-wide" are banned because if the states don't implement legislation to ban it, they get less contributions from the federal government in $$$, for example, less money to make/maintain highways with, no leftover guns from the army to use for police etc.

 

But many other thigns (For example, state-level RICO legislation) exists concurrently with the federal RICO legislation. federal police do not enforce state law (In most circumstances). This means that it might be illegal for an FBI agent to pull you over for speeding. On the other side, municipal police can enforce municipal law, county law, state law & federal law. County police can enforce county law, state law & federal law. State police can enforce state law & federal law. HOWEVER, federal crimes are charged through federal courts, which we do not have, by the U.S. Attorney General's Department of Justice or the U.S. Attorney's Offices.

I am not sure if RICO allows state police entities to enact it. I don't believe it does, but I haven't read it so I can't be sure. Anyhow. They don't because most states have their own laws on it that allow them to charge it through their own prosecutors and their own courts. 



All this useless talk above aside, we cannot use federal laws too liberally due to the following
1. These type of laws exist of 100's upon 100's of pages filled with legalese writing which the average person will not understand. This includes police officers, prosecutors, judges, criminals etc;

2. You can not change this act up in any way. Some parts might be considered by server admins to be too excessive for this server. Some parts might be considered too weak, etc.

Link to comment
17 hours ago, Trupiano said:

I think a lot of you guys are getting tied up in the details. We don’t need to introduce some form of federal law enforcement or figure out a bridge between state and federal law for RICO. We can just suspend our disbelief and have it run through state level and it works fine.

 

The real issue with RICO’s (and DB investigations) as a whole is there aren’t clearly defined OOC guidelines for what flys and what doesn’t. Leading to investigation that are one step forward, two steps back. You end up with a detective spending 2+ weeks doing investigation work only for 95% of that work to be voided once the case goes to court.

 

IFM/LFM need to sit down and work out clear and understanding guidelines for what is acceptable and what is not for investigations. Nothing too restricting but at least set the groundwork so people aren’t shocked and discouraged when most of the work they put in is struck down by staff.

 

Staff also needs to decide and put in writing what warrants a RICO investigation and what the expected consequences of one are. I see a lot of people arguing against RICO cases saying that criminal factions shouldn’t be shut down by external sources. 
 

the issue with that is most often then not, the external source in this case was entirely brought on by a factions own actions. You can’t argue you shouldn’t be the target when your IG actions are drawing enough attention to warrant an investigation. 
 

This is all about clearing up the confusing around RICO investigations for both LEO’s and criminals. It should be as straight forward and understandable as CK applications so when it does happen, no one involved can complain and hopefully because everyone’s equally informed on the rules and regulation no admin has to step in and cherry pick which information is going to be allowed and which is going to be voided.

 

What's wrong with adding federal law enforcement RP ? It creates more immersion and opportunities. 

Link to comment
12 hours ago, BjornV said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Federal law and state law live next to eachother. They aren't different levels- Specific federal acts bind the states and most articles of the US Constitutions bind the states- Not all do.

Almost every state has their own variant of "RICO" legislation. Various other things which are banned "Nation-wide" are banned because if the states don't implement legislation to ban it, they get less contributions from the federal government in $$$, for example, less money to make/maintain highways with, no leftover guns from the army to use for police etc.

 

But many other thigns (For example, state-level RICO legislation) exists concurrently with the federal RICO legislation. federal police do not enforce state law (In most circumstances). This means that it might be illegal for an FBI agent to pull you over for speeding. On the other side, municipal police can enforce municipal law, county law, state law & federal law. County police can enforce county law, state law & federal law. State police can enforce state law & federal law. HOWEVER, federal crimes are charged through federal courts, which we do not have, by the U.S. Attorney General's Department of Justice or the U.S. Attorney's Offices.

I am not sure if RICO allows state police entities to enact it. I don't believe it does, but I haven't read it so I can't be sure. Anyhow. They don't because most states have their own laws on it that allow them to charge it through their own prosecutors and their own courts. 



All this useless talk above aside, we cannot use federal laws too liberally due to the following
1. These type of laws exist of 100's upon 100's of pages filled with legalese writing which the average person will not understand. This includes police officers, prosecutors, judges, criminals etc;

2. You can not change this act up in any way. Some parts might be considered by server admins to be too excessive for this server. Some parts might be considered too weak, etc.

 

For the first statement you made, you could that with any state law could be vague and unintelligible for an average citizen to understand. But we still have a state law and regulation for the great state of San Andreas we all precide under right? It's not vague or anything like that it seems pretty easy for someone to understand. Second, For all you people who are in the LS DA's Office Faction it wasn't hard for you guys to get into it or even understand basic judicial/BAR Code of Ethics, court proceedings or even the law itself right? If it's easy for people to get into the DA's Office or even become a cop it should be easy for someone to learn basic federal law and do the same proceedings as it goes in a state level RP-wise but just under a federal level/rule if you guys catch my drift? Imagine having the FBI/ATF/DEA stepping into to assist the LSPD/LSFD with investigations and help put a stop to elite gangs, illict drug trafficking, enforce gang injunctions, or what not. This will create so much opportunities to expand Illegal RP in this community I feel like. It would also create more immersion too. However, apart from what I'm saying.  I'm not saying that the whole entire U.S Federal Law should be enforced in a fucking video game no fuck that. I'm just saying enforce common federal laws that most criminals violate (E.G Murder, Extortion, Blackmail, Robbery, RICO, Anti-Trust Laws, Civil Rights Violations, CFR Violations) . I would also like to think that if federal RP was a thing in this community, they're would be policies, guidelines and contracts between state and federal agencies pertaining to enforcement. Example being if a crime supersedes the state law, that's when the Feds should step in. You know what I mean guys? This community is pretty big I wouldn't think it would be a problem..? I mean I been on this community now for barely two months I'm learning more of the game scripts and RP lifestyle as I play on this community every single day. Why not give Federal RP a try huh? 

 

 

 

 

Edited by GamerX
Link to comment
13 hours ago, Topinambour said:

I think this here is quite important, not just for RICO but the server in general.

 

The question we should ask ourselves maybe isn't "how does RICO work IRL?" but "how would a RICO-like system serve the server's RP". If a RICO or RICO-like system has a use for the server, then making it fully "like IRL" is not that interesting or useful. As long as it's done in a believable way, I don't think too many relevant people will care if it's federal or state-wide, seriously ^^' 

And if it turns out a RICO-like system is considered bad for the server, then... whether it's federal or not becomes completely irrelevant. In either case, the "federal or not?" question isn't that pertinent ^^' 

To answer you're question about How does RICO work IRL, It's simple. RICO is enforced by the Feds when a gang or criminal enterprise "invest, maintain an interest in, or participate in interstate or foreign commerce" (E.G Drug Cartels/Human Trafficking - source: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/content/rico-act.html)  If a Gang has total rule of a State in which that certain state cannot control and terminate it with they're own laws and regulations the federal government are gonna step in and put an end to it. 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, GamerX said:

 

For the first statement you made, you could that with any state law could be vague and unintelligible for an average citizen to understand. But we still have a state law and regulation for the great state of San Andreas we all precide under right? It's not vague or anything like that it seems pretty easy for someone to understand. Second, For all you people who are in the LS DA's Office Faction it wasn't hard for you guys to get into it or even understand basic judicial/BAR Code of Ethics, court proceedings or even the law itself right? If it's easy for people to get into the DA's Office or even become a cop it should be easy for someone to learn basic federal law and do the same proceedings as it goes in a state level RP-wise but just under a federal level/rule if you guys catch my drift? Imagine having the FBI/ATF/DEA stepping into to assist the LSPD/LSFD with investigations and help put a stop to elite gangs, illict drug trafficking, enforce gang injunctions, or what not. This will create so much opportunities to expand Illegal RP in this community I feel like. It would also create more immersion too. However, apart from what I'm saying.  I'm not saying that the whole entire U.S Federal Law should be enforced in a fucking video game no fuck that. I'm just saying enforce common federal laws that most criminals violate (E.G Murder, Extortion, Blackmail, Robbery, RICO, Anti-Trust Laws, Civil Rights Violations, CFR Violations) . I would also like to think that if federal RP was a thing in this community, they're would be policies, guidelines and contracts between state and federal agencies pertaining to enforcement. Example being if a crime supersedes the state law, that's when the Feds should step in. You know what I mean guys? This community is pretty big I wouldn't think it would be a problem..? I mean I been on this community now for barely two months I'm learning more of the game scripts and RP lifestyle as I play on this community every single day. Why not give Federal RP a try huh? 

 

 

 

 

1. LFM and server management do not want any statewide or federal based investigative agencies.

2. State law on this server is dumbed down to be accessible to the average 16-18 year old who speaks average or above English 

3. Federal law can, due to not having federal courts, be used in some state court proceedings for specific instances . The exception is federal criminal code, because we have a penal code that clearly states that we do not need to rely on U.S. Title 18. We could, I guess, use it, but we simply don't.

4. Going on with 2, google real life laws. The IRL CA Penal Code. The IRL CA Gov Code. Thousands or tens of thousands of different entries are in each individual state code. Federal law is the same, and on top of that, it can be hard to get access to full federal law because not all of them are accessible online. And those that are are mostly locked behind paywall websites

Link to comment

Take it easy, you guys are overthinking this, there is no need for an agency or government faction for RICO to work. Just a division in either SD or PD with selective members that are picked by the management, either via applications, or something else, and a couple of OOC ground rules, similar to CK wars maybe. And as for the IC laws, it could probably be possible to have a dumbed down and adapted version of the law.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
  • Wuhtah locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...