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The great debate - Shaping the illegal scene for the next years


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I'm seriously hoping for the best with this, especially after the thread I posted a while ago, however I do have some reservations about a committee of only one type of roleplayer making decisions that will impact the entire server as a whole. I hope the feedback given through this discord group will then be passed on to a second, more neutral group, perhaps a selection of folks such as verified neutral business owners and managers, mappers, and fire department personnel (so that it won't be LEO roleplayers as "neutral parties") to double-check the decisions made by the first group and offer input and give pertinent advice where necessary, through checks and balances.


I also have some serious concerns about the discord server that are echoed here as well,
 

2 hours ago, orca112 said:

it would not be the first time such place turns into a (toxic) echo chamber resulting in very one-sided opinions and concepts without needed input of other parts of the community.


As I very distinctly remember a server with a similar concept, though unofficial, being used as a platform for tongue-in-cheek anti-semitism (which it got deleted by Discord for, only to be remade), homophobia, OOC planning/harassment, and raiding- who I, myself, fell victim to when the unofficial "counter" server was created and was subsequently laid siege to by "representatives" and "ambassadors" to this group. Leaving out names, because it's old drama, and noone should need to deal with it anymore- but that's a concern, if the server remains active after the conclusion of its usefulness to this topic. Let's not let a server like that go unmoderated again.

All in all, fingers are crossed. This might be a step in the right direction.

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3 hours ago, ChromaticDeath said:

it would not be the first time such place turns into a (toxic) echo chamber resulting in very one-sided opinions and concepts without needed input of other parts of the community.

And a major difficulty is that most factions live in their bubbles. They post screenshots 12 times a day of them discussing random stuff in an alley, eating burgers or smoking a cigarette at home, but rarely are there any interactions with other criminal groups. Now, sure it's "realistic" I suppose, no worry there. But it also means they only see themselves and each other all the time, with NO IDEA what other factions are *really* doing.

 

This is why there is a very, very real risk it will turn into a massive "my faction's the best RP in the universe, yours are just peons" party, all of this while ignoring the fact that a real portion of the illegal RP is done by independents who don't belong in any specific faction. I'm really not a fan of the methods used here, because no matter how constructive the debate is, the end-data will be EXTREMELY skewed. It would be like asking the people of a town if they like their houses, and only polling the people from one specific neighborhood where the houses are nice. The result will be that people find the houses of the town nice... even if those from the other 12 neighborhoods really don't share that view 😕 

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5 hours ago, ChromaticDeath said:

perhaps a selection of folks such as verified neutral business owners and managers, mappers, and fire department personnel (so that it won't be LEO roleplayers as "neutral parties") 

95% of them never had an illegal char and have NO clue about illegal RP. Sounds like a great idea

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4 minutes ago, Nega said:

95% of them never had an illegal char and have NO clue about illegal RP. Sounds like a great idea

 

  Think about it like this: the cops make an admin-sanctioned cop only discord and make up all their own rules, and they don't allow anyone they impact (civilians and criminals) any say in it whatsoever. Doesn't sound very fair, does it?

 

I'm not turning this into a debate like you (may) be fishing for- but that's a horrible outlook on a very dynamic issue. It isn't black and white.

 

 

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Especially since, I know I'm insisting with that, but a very real part of the illegal community isn't even allowed to participate ^^'' The data that comes out of this will have some problems from the get go :< 

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2 hours ago, Topinambour said:

And a major difficulty is that most factions live in their bubbles. They post screenshots 12 times a day of them discussing random stuff in an alley, eating burgers or smoking a cigarette at home, but rarely are there any interactions with other criminal groups. Now, sure it's "realistic" I suppose, no worry there. But it also means they only see themselves and each other all the time, with NO IDEA what other factions are *really* doing.

 

This is why there is a very, very real risk it will turn into a massive "my faction's the best RP in the universe, yours are just peons" party, all of this while ignoring the fact that a real portion of the illegal RP is done by independents who don't belong in any specific faction. I'm really not a fan of the methods used here, because no matter how constructive the debate is, the end-data will be EXTREMELY skewed. It would be like asking the people of a town if they like their houses, and only polling the people from one specific neighborhood where the houses are nice. The result will be that people find the houses of the town nice... even if those from the other 12 neighborhoods really don't share that view 😕 


I don’t agree with this, mainly because of the fact that things like the Black Car, La eMe, White Car, etc exist. These are literally both IC and OOC communities that multiple factions congregate in, to then properly mesh realistically with other cars/umbrella factions in ways that keep them intertwined in some way, shape or form. It’s not a situation of bubbles, since illegal factions in South Central for example LITERALLY live across the street from one another. So interaction is inevitable. So majority of the illegal factions interact and correlate with one another, especially black/hispanic related gangs/factions. 

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6 hours ago, ChromaticDeath said:

I'm seriously hoping for the best with this, especially after the thread I posted a while ago, however I do have some reservations about a committee of only one type of roleplayer making decisions that will impact the entire server as a whole. I hope the feedback given through this discord group will then be passed on to a second, more neutral group, perhaps a selection of folks such as verified neutral business owners and managers, mappers, and fire department personnel (so that it won't be LEO roleplayers as "neutral parties") to double-check the decisions made by the first group and offer input and give pertinent advice where necessary, through checks and balances.


I also have some serious concerns about the discord server that are echoed here as well,
 


As I very distinctly remember a server with a similar concept, though unofficial, being used as a platform for tongue-in-cheek anti-semitism (which it got deleted by Discord for, only to be remade), homophobia, OOC planning/harassment, and raiding- who I, myself, fell victim to when the unofficial "counter" server was created and was subsequently laid siege to by "representatives" and "ambassadors" to this group. Leaving out names, because it's old drama, and noone should need to deal with it anymore- but that's a concern, if the server remains active after the conclusion of its usefulness to this topic. Let's not let a server like that go unmoderated again.

All in all, fingers are crossed. This might be a step in the right direction.

 

We have /zero/ idea regarding what exactly this discussion will fix semantically. It could only change things like organization, or additional scripts. I think people are jumping the gun way too soon and assuming that these changes will automatically affect or harm them. Literally the only viable interaction between civilians and criminals are things like robberies, civilians being caught in cross fires between factions inside known criminal faction-owned establishments, etc. So unless you can name me any other form of interaction that would even virtually scratch the legal scene more than illegal RP does now, I don’t think you have much if anything to worry about. 

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