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8 hours ago, Piepstem said:

Okay... you are quick to judge LEO rp'ers within the community but you have no real role-playing justification for driving off, other than wanting to bait PD into a pursuit. 

"Quick to judge LEO RP'ers" implies I'm not the fastest.

 

Seriously though, I had my character run because of his extensive record of driving without a license, if he complied and pulled over to the side of the road he's still 100% going to jail no matter how hard he ass kisses. It's either stand down and go straight to jail or chance an escape (which he managed to do surprisingly often) and go down fighting, the IC punishment being more or less the same no matter what he did. 1 Hour = 1 Day, 1 Day = 1 Month, 1 Month = 1 Year. Most he's been sentenced to off the top of my head was 2 days, 2 IC months, that's nothing for taking both SD/PD around the entire state of San Andreas and almost accidently killing a cop in the process.

 

There's a whole unreliable narrator backstory filled with hardcore drugs and police corruption that totals up to maybe a year or so that led him down that path which you can read here:

It's very snazzy if I do say so myself!

 

Circling back though, this was the aftermath of the chase in the picture and video:

xYmSa4X.png

 

My problem has never been a large police response to someone obviously breaking the law, my problem is excessively large police responses ruining what could be amazing RP on other parts of the map. A crackhead in a rusty beater that goes quarter the speed of the slowest cruiser doesn't require 5+ cop cars to keep up, especially if the overwhelming response leaves someone with a super interesting RP situation sat around AFK because there's nobody around to respond.

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44 minutes ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

"Quick to judge LEO RP'ers" implies I'm not the fastest.

 

Seriously though, I had my character run because of his extensive record of driving without a license, if he complied and pulled over to the side of the road he's still 100% going to jail no matter how hard he ass kisses. It's either stand down and go straight to jail or chance an escape (which he managed to do surprisingly often) and go down fighting, the IC punishment being more or less the same no matter what he did. 1 Hour = 1 Day, 1 Day = 1 Month, 1 Month = 1 Year. Most he's been sentenced to off the top of my head was 2 days, 2 IC months, that's nothing for taking both SD/PD around the entire state of San Andreas and almost accidently killing a cop in the process.

 

There's a whole unreliable narrator backstory filled with hardcore drugs and police corruption that totals up to maybe a year or so that led him down that path which you can read here:

It's very snazzy if I do say so myself!

 

Circling back though, this was the aftermath of the chase in the picture and video:

xYmSa4X.png

 

My problem has never been a large police response to someone obviously breaking the law, my problem is excessively large police responses ruining what could be amazing RP on other parts of the map. A crackhead in a rusty beater that goes quarter the speed of the slowest cruiser doesn't require 5+ cop cars to keep up, especially if the overwhelming response leaves someone with a super interesting RP situation sat around AFK because there's nobody around to respond.

 

You are blowing the situation way out of proportion. As has been said before, there have been numerous occurrences and especially in bigger departments with much more resources (the LAPD, which we draw continuity from) that multiple units respond over something that could be considered petty. Although, a felon is not something I would really call petty. A lot of the fellow faction members within the LSPD where I had the pleasure to personally speak and RP with prefer the super interesting RP over something such as a pursuit. That is exactly why the entire faction does not respond to pursuits, because people have different mindsets and draw fun and interesting role-play from many different sources that the role-playing community has to offer. 


At the end of the day, people are here to have fun and role-play, this is a role-playing community (and a game) and it is sometimes inevitable to have a lot of units join the pursuit. Not everything can be overly realistic. As I mentioned before though, law enforcement factions do continue to progress on the field of how to make things more realistic and enjoyable for every party involved and it is safe to say that legal factions have progressed a lot and will continue to progress.

Edited by Piepstem
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1 hour ago, Piepstem said:

You are blowing the situation way out of proportion. As has been said before, there have been numerous occurrences and especially in bigger departments with much more resources (the LAPD, which we draw continuity from) that multiple units respond over something that could be considered petty.

You can't compare the manpower of 5 LAPD cruisers pulled aside for a petty pursuit with 9000+ active IRL police officers to 5 LSPD cruisers on a server of at max 800-something players. Police responses should be scaled appropriately, realism be damned.

 

I'd quote the rest but it's stuff we all already know, I don't think anybody actually believes EVERY COP in the entire faction logs on for a pursuit then logs off - players aren't going to complain about a good cop doing good cop RP.

 

1 hour ago, Piepstem said:

At the end of the day, people are here to have fun and role-play, this is a role-playing community (and a game) and it is sometimes inevitable to have a lot of units join the pursuit. Not everything can be overly realistic.

Despite the cop-out (no pun intended) of the whole it's just a game and people are here to have fun argument I've not asked for cops to act more "realistic" in my response, if anything I'd prefer it if they acted less like the actual LAPD and were more balanced to be fun for all sides of the server.

 

If I could drag a solid 5+ cruisers along with me in a chase over a doinked headlight that has everybody entertained I'd be cool with it but I also know what it's like to have a super cool situation tank hard and kill a night's worth of RP because the 911 calls I'm making are being ignored and the cops that would normally see the commotion are in another part of the city with 10 other cops responding to something that could have easily been fixed with half of that.

Edited by BINGBONGGHOST
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A big issue is that low effort crime is not punished, neither are efforts to do smart crime rewarded resulting in this META of unrealistic robberies, kidnapping and violence - because why would you put efforts into something that works just as fine? Why put thoughts into escape plans when you can just 2 tap everyone dare standing in your way and get away with it? Criminals adapt to an ever-changing environment, so does Law Enforcement. If you look back 10-15 years, the Internet was essentially the wild west, a big sandbox. Nowadays, it is heavily monitored and outright restricted or banned in certain countries. Your IP is logged and can easily be traced back whilst new services such as TOR, VPN and Proxies come up to preserve that anonymity for both good and bad.

 

This environment is not given on GTA:W, there is no adaption or harsher scrunity from Law Enforcement. Some might even say it is evolving backwards with script features purposefully changed or 'nerfed'. Federal Agencies and their presence are supposed to be roleplayed and exist in continuity, but are nowhere found just like any NPC population due to the IFM ruling on the server population being the player count. Supporting laws such as a RICO act have repeatedly been denied or shut down and the last big OCG investigation of the LSPD was 90% voided due to the bug script being deemed too OP / broken which also resulted in any VICE investigations being halted until LFM figured things out, which, to my knowledge, has not happened in almost a year by now.

 

Investigative roleplay as a whole can be its lengthy discussion topic of its own and is heavily reliant on player-to-player interaction (details surrounding crime scenes, forensics investigations, fingerprints, DNA - essentially everything due to the existing scripts being very abstract; think like latent prints on casings or blood splatter patterns than what is possible with a casing object and red dot on the floor) and there unfortunately is a large portion of the community unwilling to participate in such, some even going as far as intentionally avoiding Detectives or falsifying information OOCly which makes investigations not only an incredible difficult job ICly with the DA tossing cases that are not 110% due to the big workload they have with no time to "actually fight cases", but also a hassle OOCly. Getting confirmation on every piece of evidence, being prepared for metagaming accusations and LFM breathing down your neck down to the few existing features that assist in investigative roleplay being unusable due to bugs and broken features or decisions they are unsuitable/OP. Given the equally large work load, people with a play2win mindset that intentionally avoid Detectives or give false details, their cases are thrown out the window to focus on those willing to engage in the roleplay offered to them by investigative personnel which also adds up to the lack of consequences for blatant or stupid crime - as players can simply opt out and avoid being investigated by being a dick to other community members.

 

Adding the lack of script support and QoL additions add to the streamlined climate of wrong staff decisions, low effort crime, little leisure activities and the same 3 business types as well as LEO characters mainly having to deal with pursuit #213 or mass shooting #9123, you end up in the environment we have today. Additions such as being able to remove/cover/modify license plates, ammened features such as the bug script and additions such as more leisure activities, incentives for mixing the population through common interests and supporting scripts or things such as the long-asked-for RICO laws would contribute for the betterment. We do not need less development or support for a certain faction, type of roleplay or nieche, but more for the server overall. If in half a year, there are 3 new features and 2 are dedicated to one specific type of roleplay, it will look bad. If there are 10-15 new things all across the board in the same timeframe, it balances itself out and shows active development of the server.

 

12 hours ago, Blackbird said:

But then I'm met by 7 vehicles whose handling was finely tuned to perform as best it can, whose drivers are equipped with kevlar, high powered pistols, shotguns or rifles and are in constant contact with eachother not to mention a relatively fast air support asset with an NVG/Thermal camera and automatic locking and reading functions.

 

To clear up some confusion here, the playing grounds are evened out in a straight forward way;

  • Firearms are the same across the board no matter your type of roleplay, especially after the addition of modding weapons where everyone can alternate between the different gun models. Shotguns do not see a lot of use regardless of where you look, with the exception of the beanbag shotgun for obvious reasons. Rifles are restricted in the LEO factions to semi automatic unless you are SWAT/SEB and require training and certification as well as a list of regulations and rules to abide to whilst criminal factions can obtain fully automatic rifles and small firearms alike through the illegal firearms suppliers. Kevlar vests also have a limited, more realistic functionality compared to old SAMP days with a second health bar, they only cover what a vest would realistically do - center mass. Any other hits are counted towards the health directly and ignore kevlar values.
  • In terms of vehicles, the patrol vehicles even out with its civilian counterpart and general performance varies between 110 to 120-125 MPH top speed (excluding curb boost (aboose), speed bumps, pot holes and others that generally increase speed for any vehicle). The infamous "Interceptor" with broken performance just like the civilian Torrence have not been a thing in almost a year at this point and handling files edited to have normal, balanced performance. Plenty cars can outperform the fleet through better acceleration, top speed or maneuverability and handling, and this is not limited to sports cars alone.
  • Communication is mainly text-based. For obvious reasons, one does not stop to start typing mid-shootout or mid-pursuit hence there are a handful of exceptions one may use VoIP, once again with restrictions applied. As a rule of thumb, if you can type it, you are expected to do so. For situations such as downed state, in times when it would be unrealistic or impossible to use voice or text radio (e.g. whilst actively shooting your firearm) further restrictions apply (aka you can not use either one) and are enforced internally and externally with the different LEO factions who take the abuse of VoIP very serious.
  • As for Air Support, a unit that for a city that is built to evade police and especially helicopters by default with tunnels, parking lots, different street levels and underpasses, it finds a lot of complaints and scrunity when it is an asset at lesser functionality than the 1990s LAPD (having 24/7 coverage with 2-3 helicopters up same time, FLIR, ALPR, LoJack, pilot & co-pilot) with a basic camera and "night vision filter" after having to open the door and /cam manually. Thermal sights have not been a thing with the old camera script, nor with the new, being disabled on the server. The vehicle locking feature has its ups and downs, especially when render distance is still an issue (textures, vehicles and people not loading properly at a certain distance, even when full zoomed in) with the camera spazzing out the moment a locked vehicle gets out of render distance. Reading functions are also not present on the helicopter. As a trade-off, the camera allows for manually zooming in, and if you got proper lighting and the sweet spot angle, you might be able to decipher the license plate on the back of a car - if one is present on the specific model. Most times, a pilot is also flying solo due to staffing/manpower issues, meaning they either fly without operating the camera or fly with the camera at limited functionality opposed to what would be a more efficient duo where one focuses on flying and the passenger operates the camera. There have also been other efforts to delay helicopter response such as mandatory pre-flight checks to be roleplayed prior take-off.

There are also other efforts taken to ammend existing features that may be deemed 'OP' such as the latest change of a delay to spike strip deployments and general scrunity for any new features or features being improved not only from the community, but also LFM as deciding factor and very involved entity in LEO factions development requests and day-to-day operations. Think of it what you want to, opinions vary strongly across the board about all these points, changes and how things roll on the server when it comes to LEO factions.

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If I could drag a solid 5+ cruisers along with me in a chase over a doinked headlight that has everybody entertained I'd be cool with it but I also know what it's like to have a super cool situation tank hard and kill a night's worth of RP because the 911 calls I'm making are being ignored and the cops that would normally see the commotion are in another part of the city with 10 other cops responding to something that could have easily been fixed with half of that.

This quite literally happens all the time in real life though. Police response is down because they are already attending to situations. I don’t even get what your argument is - you’re constantly evading police but you don’t like how many units respond because that could be detrimental to other peoples 911 calls? lmao

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42 minutes ago, Goonbag said:

This quite literally happens all the time in real life though. Police response is down because they are already attending to situations. 

Massive difference between police response times being slow and police response times being non-existent. Unless LA is in the middle of being bombed by droves of terrorists or you're unlucky enough to get some outliner corrupt cop who intentionally snuffs your call because he can't be bothered heading to that part of town you're still going to get a response.

 

42 minutes ago, Goonbag said:

I don’t even get what your argument is - you’re constantly evading police but you don’t like how many units respond because that could be detrimental to other peoples 911 calls? lmao

Yes, sit down and read that back to yourself a couple times.

 

 

Edited by BINGBONGGHOST
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40 minutes ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

Yes, sit down and read that back to yourself a couple times.


I did bromie.

 

Sounds like you’re the issue, not the LEOs.

 

Given your history you’re probably tagged as a known evader, dangerous and someone to approach with caution. You’re also a felon and you probably have a warrant for your arrest if you continually evade police.

 

Of course they’re going to send additional units after you. You are a wanted criminal, repeat offender and a danger to everyone on the roads. 
 

It’s for the same reason that my character’s history and affiliations means a bearcat pulls in for backup every time I get pulled over. 

Edited by Goonbag
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1 minute ago, Goonbag said:

Given your history you’re probably tagged as a known evader, dangerous and someone to approach with caution. You’re also a felon and you probably have a warrant for your arrest if you continually evade police.

 

Of course they’re going to send additional units after you. You are a wanted criminal, repeat offender and a danger to everyone on the roads. 

You keep this up and I'm gonna start blushing.

 

 

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5 hours ago, orca112 said:

This environment is not given on GTA:W, there is no adaption or harsher scrunity from Law Enforcement. Some might even say it is evolving backwards with script features purposefully changed or 'nerfed'. Federal Agencies and their presence are supposed to be roleplayed and exist in continuity, but are nowhere found just like any NPC population due to the IFM ruling on the server population being the player count. Supporting laws such as a RICO act have repeatedly been denied or shut down and the last big OCG investigation of the LSPD was 90% voided due to the bug script being deemed too OP / broken which also resulted in any VICE investigations being halted until LFM figured things out, which, to my knowledge, has not happened in almost a year by now.

 

Investigative roleplay as a whole can be its lengthy discussion topic of its own and is heavily reliant on player-to-player interaction (details surrounding crime scenes, forensics investigations, fingerprints, DNA - essentially everything due to the existing scripts being very abstract; think like latent prints on casings or blood splatter patterns than what is possible with a casing object and red dot on the floor) and there unfortunately is a large portion of the community unwilling to participate in such, some even going as far as intentionally avoiding Detectives or falsifying information OOCly which makes investigations not only an incredible difficult job ICly with the DA tossing cases that are not 110% due to the big workload they have with no time to "actually fight cases", but also a hassle OOCly. Getting confirmation on every piece of evidence, being prepared for metagaming accusations and LFM breathing down your neck down to the few existing features that assist in investigative roleplay being unusable due to bugs and broken features or decisions they are unsuitable/OP. Given the equally large work load, people with a play2win mindset that intentionally avoid Detectives or give false details, their cases are thrown out the window to focus on those willing to engage in the roleplay offered to them by investigative personnel which also adds up to the lack of consequences for blatant or stupid crime - as players can simply opt out and avoid being investigated by being a dick to other community members.

 

Great post, I'd like to add to this part that due to the points you've made in the quoted section, it gives an incentive for law enforcement to more actively and more often target those illegal roleplayers that they believe will go along, provide good roleplay in return and be truthful in their responses to OOC questions about the crime. I often find myself feeling like the fact that I put so much effort into realism and staying careful puts me at a disadvantage against illegal roleplayers who don't even really care about that and will shoot anyone who disagrees with them just to later pretend like they left no fingerprints, DNA or any other kind of evidence. I'm afraid the IFM simply does not understand the entire point of law enforcement and criminal interactions. As a criminal, you're doing your thing until you're suddenly hit with indictments and you hear yourself on tape in the courtroom saying nefarious things or maybe they even play a video of it and bring a few witnesses at which point it's a wrap. Criminals are ALWAYS afraid of getting caught and the ones that aren't will most likely, ironically, spend most of their lives going in and out of prison. It's that fear that naturally brings criminals to behave in a more grounded level, think about what they are saying and doing. If RICO act, more surveillance equipment introduced as well as other techniques that do not require the detective to ask anything OOCly were brought back? We'd see actual fear in criminals because they'd never know if they're being investigated or not, if there's a detective out to get them or not. I don't get this need to make it "fair" for illegal factions. In real life the amount of resources law enforcement can pull to go after criminals is ridiculous, life isn't fair for in real life criminals, why should it be for ones on GTA World.

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