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The issue with making the penal system harsher is that you’re punishing EVERYONE to target one small group of roleplayers.

 

What about the organised crime guys who aren’t out there getting into shootouts but are being smashed by detectives? Good roleplay in these circumstances mean that these guys are getting slapped with whatever bullshit charges the DA can make stick. And there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s a fun game of cat and mouse for the OC guys and the LEO guys. However, harsher penalties would mean that these guys will be doing even MORE time, but these aren’t the guys you’re trying to target at all. For example my faction is the target of constant stop and searches, raids, police harassment etc.These usually come up empty because we usually dot our i’s and cross our t’s but in RARE circumstances they might catch a guy with a firearm or some drugs on him. Right now, said guy might do a few days in TTCF. Do you think this same guy needs a harsher punishment?

 

The people you’re trying to target are still going to pk their way out of an arrest and continue the cycle. 

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9 minutes ago, Goonbag said:

The issue with making the penal system harsher is that you’re punishing EVERYONE to target one small group of roleplayers.

 

What about the organised crime guys who aren’t out there getting into shootouts but are being smashed by detectives? Good roleplay in these circumstances mean that these guys are getting slapped with whatever bullshit charges the DA can make stick. And there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s a fun game of cat and mouse for the OC guys and the LEO guys. However, harsher penalties would mean that these guys will be doing even MORE time, but these aren’t the guys you’re trying to target at all. For example my faction is the target of constant stop and searches, raids, police harassment etc.These usually come up empty because we usually dot our i’s and cross our t’s but in RARE circumstances they might catch a guy with a firearm or some drugs on him. Right now, said guy might do a few days in TTCF. Do you think this same guy needs a harsher punishment?

 

The people you’re trying to target are still going to pk their way out of an arrest and continue the cycle. 

OCG's shouldn't be getting arrested, frequently, though. In fact, they'd probably gain a lot of development after getting caught and spending 10 days in TTCF.

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These issues cannot be addressed in anyway but through the faction leadership holding their members responsible. A faction I was in would CK you if they found out you even shot at a cop, whilst some laud you IC and OOC for having 24 killed cops at the age of 14. Leadership should be more proactive in filtering this out and checking their own members, rather than tolerating IC behaviour which leads to massive amounts of heat on their faction, and likely would lead to OOC punishments down the line. Making the penal code more severe would only add to the clunkiness and would aid in overwhelming an already burgeoning judicial backlog.

 

LEO's never need buffs, they are overpowered, the only people suggesting otherwise are LEO's. Responses to these incidents should be IC, OOC changed aren't required. Case in point is the Sheriff's Department, which has attempted to combat an IC (and OOC) rise in mass cop killings through proactive investigations and massive operations (including handling a riot).

 

In terms of being a detective, I'm sure my friend @Bartolomeocould give you a lecture of the great rewards and excellent roleplay we encounter, mixed with the negative on occasion. There is no way to buff detective roleplay, the majority of investigations are done OOCly (e.g we need to ask the suspect in PMs if there would be fingerprints on the murder weapon), and whilst this can lead to some metagaming, it's crucial to all detective roleplay in SD that we aren't out 'to get factions' or to 'police the server'. People like being investigated IC and it motivates both LEOs and criminals to increase the quality of their roleplay, and offers them a unique and fun experience.

Edited by imi
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1 hour ago, DLimit said:

OCG's shouldn't be getting arrested, frequently, though. In fact, they'd probably gain a lot of development after getting caught and spending 10 days in TTCF.

Gotta second this, had my OCG character for a gun charge, made him reevaluate, good development.

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1 hour ago, imi said:

These issues cannot be addressed in anyway but through the faction leadership holding their members responsible. A faction I was in would CK you if they found out you even shot at a cop, whilst some laud you IC and OOC for having 24 killed cops at the age of 14. Leadership should be more proactive in filtering this out and checking their own members, rather than tolerating IC behaviour which leads to massive amounts of heat on their faction, and likely would lead to OOC punishments down the line. Making the penal code more severe would only add to the clunkiness and would aid in overwhelming an already burgeoning judicial backlog.

 

LEO's never need buffs, they are overpowered, the only people suggesting otherwise are LEO's. Responses to these incidents should be IC, OOC changed aren't required. Case in point is the Sheriff's Department, which has attempted to combat an IC (and OOC) rise in mass cop killings through proactive investigations and massive operations (including handling a riot).

 

In terms of being a detective, I'm sure my friend @Bartolomeocould give you a lecture of the great rewards and excellent roleplay we encounter, mixed with the negative on occasion. There is no way to buff detective roleplay, the majority of investigations are done OOCly (e.g we need to ask the suspect in PMs if there would be fingerprints on the murder weapon), and whilst this can lead to some metagaming, it's crucial to all detective roleplay in SD that we aren't out 'to get factions' or to 'police the server'. People like being investigated IC and it motivates both LEOs and criminals to increase the quality of their roleplay, and offers them a unique and fun experience.


I'm not an LEO roleplayer, so I'm not really aware of the inner workings of most LEO factions. As a mostly illegal roleplayer, I enjoy the cat and mouse chase of being investigated and can appreciate when I'm caught fair and square. If my criminal character makes a poor IC decision that leads to their arrest and incarceration, then I'm willing to accept that result. While I agree that police should not be there to 'police the server', empowering LEO factions with certain tools should - in my mind - help to create smarter criminals. 


I think the only way to convince factions to maintain a higher standard for their members is for A: IFM to hold these factions accountable OOCly; this is sometimes necessary but most often not ideal as I'm generally against OOC pressures affecting IC decisions, or B: creating incentives for factions to play 'smarter' then they are; this usually means more pressure from police. I'm glad that LEO factions like SD have been reacting appropriately to the rise in cop killing, but they're clearly not really making a dent into the culture of rampant cop killing that is standard to this server.


The last time I saw a gang injunction used on this server was 2020. There's no RICO, no FBI, DEA, IRS, or any existential threat that criminal organizations face on a day-to-day basis. I understand this is a video game, and there will always be balancing and limitations to keep in mind, but unless LEO factions are given more avenues to make 'smarter' factions, factions have no incentive to play any smarter than they already do.


As far as I see it, every faction should exist on an even playing field; given the exact same support and recourses as others. I've heard on multiple occasions that large-scale investigations are voided as they become 'detrimental' to the existence of a certain faction, or that police are 'unfairly targeting' a specific faction. I very much hope that's not true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was; many IC decisions like the unanimous legalization of marijuana have been OOCly blocked by IFM, as they would be 'detrimental' to illegal roleplay. 

There is a dissidence between the IC priorities of LEO factions on the server, and the OOC needs to balance the powers of legal factions against illegal factions. I'm of the opinion that IFM should never interfere with investigations unless there is OOC rulebreaking or metagame. It should also be massive IC priority for LEO's to rid the city of its rampant corruption and crime. While they may not be there to 'police the server', they ought to do a lot more than just get into high-speed chases and respond to gunfights. Allow LEO factions to react accordingly to the ultra-violence displayed by illegal factions; even if that is to the detriment of certain factions. If an illegal faction is too dumb to swim, it should be allowed to sink. 

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2 hours ago, imi said:

These issues cannot be addressed in anyway but through the faction leadership holding their members responsible. A faction I was in would CK you if they found out you even shot at a cop, whilst some laud you IC and OOC for having 24 killed cops at the age of 14. Leadership should be more proactive in filtering this out and checking their own members, rather than tolerating IC behaviour which leads to massive amounts of heat on their faction, and likely would lead to OOC punishments down the line.

 

I dont agree with everything you said, but this part is very much true. When groups of players, unofficial groups and/or factions don't hold their own members accountable for their actions, you're going in the wrong direction. This is what shoud be the focus. Anything else is a bandaid or just fighting symptoms instead of the causes. Its difficult when those players aren't part of a faction, but it still needs to be done.

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5 hours ago, Fancy Toothpaste said:


I'm not an LEO roleplayer, so I'm not really aware of the inner workings of most LEO factions. As a mostly illegal roleplayer, I enjoy the cat and mouse chase of being investigated and can appreciate when I'm caught fair and square. If my criminal character makes a poor IC decision that leads to their arrest and incarceration, then I'm willing to accept that result. While I agree that police should not be there to 'police the server', empowering LEO factions with certain tools should - in my mind - help to create smarter criminals. 


I think the only way to convince factions to maintain a higher standard for their members is for A: IFM to hold these factions accountable OOCly; this is sometimes necessary but most often not ideal as I'm generally against OOC pressures affecting IC decisions, or B: creating incentives for factions to play 'smarter' then they are; this usually means more pressure from police. I'm glad that LEO factions like SD have been reacting appropriately to the rise in cop killing, but they're clearly not really making a dent into the culture of rampant cop killing that is standard to this server.


The last time I saw a gang injunction used on this server was 2020. There's no RICO, no FBI, DEA, IRS, or any existential threat that criminal organizations face on a day-to-day basis. I understand this is a video game, and there will always be balancing and limitations to keep in mind, but unless LEO factions are given more avenues to make 'smarter' factions, factions have no incentive to play any smarter than they already do.


As far as I see it, every faction should exist on an even playing field; given the exact same support and recourses as others. I've heard on multiple occasions that large-scale investigations are voided as they become 'detrimental' to the existence of a certain faction, or that police are 'unfairly targeting' a specific faction. I very much hope that's not true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was; many IC decisions like the unanimous legalization of marijuana have been OOCly blocked by IFM, as they would be 'detrimental' to illegal roleplay. 

There is a dissidence between the IC priorities of LEO factions on the server, and the OOC needs to balance the powers of legal factions against illegal factions. I'm of the opinion that IFM should never interfere with investigations unless there is OOC rulebreaking or metagame. It should also be massive IC priority for LEO's to rid the city of its rampant corruption and crime. While they may not be there to 'police the server', they ought to do a lot more than just get into high-speed chases and respond to gunfights. Allow LEO factions to react accordingly to the ultra-violence displayed by illegal factions; even if that is to the detriment of certain factions. If an illegal faction is too dumb to swim, it should be allowed to sink. 

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IRL crime is reactive to policing which is reactive to new crime practices which are reactive to pol... etc. etc.

 

Crime, in a broad sense, is as refined as the efforts/ability to stop it.

 

Right now the robbery meta can't be stopped because investigative work is dead, so most robberies unless horribly botched are a perfect crime.

 

Factions can already police portrayal as it is. Sticking walls of text on Discord is really just like signing Terms & Conditions you haven't read if factions talk the talk of realism but then are complicit in perpetuating in-game behaviours.

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11 hours ago, Blackbird said:

DaQuan Shanterious the Third is none the wiser than his past two characters because the same cop got shot 20 times and is still going out and about - while they CK for nefarious purposes, get CKs forced on them or end up being CKed for some other reason. Yet officer CKs are so sparse and few in between that there's whole ass ceremonies being held over someone that just namechanged - something that happens daily in South Los Santos.

Just wanna debunk the lack of facts here. In much the same way a banger can get CKed for playing dumb games, cops can too. If Supercop #1 rolls into Gangland during a riot with only his or her will to live, a LTL shotgun and a sidearm, the chances of that officer's death becoming a CK is higher, particularly if the individuals involved have a good reason for the murder and the circumstances make Supercop #1 especially dumb-dumb-dumb. As per the chain of command, it's usually reported by the opposing party in the moment and admin involved will usually determine CK or PK if the officer's player does not determine CK by themselves. If it's contentious or problematic, it may result in a forum report dispute but in-house, those behaviours lead to punitive measures being taken against the player engaging in overtly risky, unrealistic RP and that will effect their ability to NC within the faction and so on. Nothing like that goes without notice for very long. 

 

Secondly, these days funerals and ceremonies are generally only reserved for those who ask for them (which are few) and high ranking individuals in the faction when they are CKed. They're a pain to orchestrate. 

 

Importantly what you describe here though is nonetheless a reality. Banger #1 will meet Cop #1 very frequently throughout his/her course of namechanges because illegal RP whereby you have an illegal gun, commit murder, robbery and a plethora of other crimes tends to lead to an increased frequency of death, either by escalation on the side of the illegals, i.e. pulling guns on traffic stops for a light-infraction, or by getting caught, eventually. If someone like this is active in their community, they will meet consequences from other factions, be they LEO or criminal. 

 

What remains a reality however is that crime does pay. The 'consequences' listed on this thread are already a reality. The tools in which LEO entities have to combat that are strictly limited, often criticized and held under a microscope. 

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When I roleplayed around gangs for the past two years I had such a good time and never understood what everyone was complaining about. I could see the complexity, the community, the intricate politics and all the absolutely fantastic characters. When my character got CKed I made another one that joined the law and found out that 98% of LEO roleplayers never see any of that. In fact, what I see is genuine OOC systemic racism, hatred and a massive gap in understanding. Most of this is generated by the absolutely soul crushing duty of policing what I can only describe as Roblox-esque gangbangers. As a cop you rarely get into the real core of gang roleplay, unless you know someone or specialize in gangs. It’s like all the gold is buried underneath a mile thick layer of manure. If you’re ignorant of gang roleplay as a whole, you’d be quick to fall into the trap of actually believing that it doesn’t exist. It exacerbates the whole issue, and just turns everything into the old “us vs them” mentality. Worst part is; you can’t tell if anyone is doing anything about it. 

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