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Hyperrealism and gatekeeping role-play


Mahitto

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1 minute ago, Mahitto said:

Last time I checked, bashing factions, groups and people is very much against the rules. For a more specific example, there's a certain gun store on the server where you can apply for a job. It's a pretty basic job, gun store clerk. However, you'll have to answer flash questions on weapon training, gun laws and procedures, as well as give very specific information about a wide range of weapon models, firing types and systems used in these weapons, safety systems, calibers, etc. They don't provide training, but rather expect you to know it. They also don't accept you Googling the answers and it's not stuff that you can learn in hours, or weeks. It's stuff you can only learn over time if you're truly passionate about guns.

 

I'm not saying they can't, but rather discussing whether they should. I also don't know what's so hard to grasp about hyperrealism. It's not a new concept. If you've never heard of it before, it's defined in the initial post and along this discussion. Simply put, hyper means super, or very.


Nothing you’ve just posted has anything to do with (hyper)realism. You’re talking about whether or not a privately owned establishment (in this case a gun store) should put up their own list of expectations (in this case specific knowledge about firearms). The answer is absolutely yes. It is their business, they paid or are paying for it with their money. It is theirs, not yours. And they have every right to run their business as they please. You might not agree with it, but it’s not your store. It’d be different if it was a government agency, but this is a privately owned business. 

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3 minutes ago, eTaylor said:


Nothing you’ve just posted has anything to do with (hyper)realism. You’re talking about whether or not a privately owned establishment (in this case a gun store) should put up their own list of expectations (in this case specific knowledge about firearms). The answer is absolutely yes. It is their business, they paid or are paying for it with their money. It is theirs, not yours. And they have every right to run their business as they please. You might not agree with it, but it’s not your store. It’d be different if it was a government agency, but this is a privately owned business. 

 

Again, it's not about whether factions and businesses can do this, but rather a discussion on this as a general practice.

 

I will stop replying to you as you're clearly looking to troll and stir things up rather than discuss, based on your other responses too.

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3 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

 

What you're describing there is realism, but the issue some of us have identified is hyperrealism - setting the bare minimum to be way too high and not giving people a way to get there. Take mechanic garages, for example, as lots of people seem to have an issue with them - you're not only asked what's under the hood or how to install a turbocharger, but rather need to know the exact order components go in and out in, the sizes and types of tools that you use on each component, the diameter of the bolts and nuts you're installing and such.

 

You can definitely spend a few hours and properly research what mechanics do, how, how cars work (simplified) but you'd need months to properly master such stuff.

 

Honestly, my experience with mechanic roleplay is it isn't detailed enough. It's no secret how much money can be farmed through the mechanic job and I think we've all seen first-hand how many players will just sit with their /bad up doing some lack lustre almost copy and paste roleplay lines to grind their way through the roleplay and get as much money as they can.

 

However, in the defence of mechanic garages. When done correctly not only the roleplay, but the garage itself supports and pushes for the education of it's members. I can't remember the name of the garage now, but there used to be a county garage which had a whole channel in their Discord to teach players how to realistically go about doing various things on a vehicle. Be that resprays, installing a turbocharger, doing window tints, whatever. Also, side-note I know a lot of mechanic garages will now do trainee or apprentice roles, to aid in the IC and OOC teaching process of mechanic roleplay.

 

I think what you're beginning to talk about isn't "hyperrealism" but just clear cut gatekeeping. If a player is restricting or judging another player off of the detail of someone's roleplay, when it comes to a technical level and know how. They're just blatantly gatekeeping that roleplay and making it less accessible to new players, by raising the bar for entry to an unreasonable level. I do think this community is better than a lot of other communities for gatekeeping, however it does still exist.

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2 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

 

Again, it's not about whether factions and businesses can do this, but rather a discussion on this as a general practice.

 

I will stop replying to you as you're clearly looking to troll and stir things up rather than discuss, based on your other responses too.


How am I trolling when you’re trolling yourself? You literally said this is a discussion about whether they “can”, then you changed it into a discussion about whether they “should” citing an unnamed gun store, and now you changed it to a “general practice”. You can’t even make up your mind about what you want to discuss, talk about good faith. In general practice it isn’t really a thing outside of privately owned establishments discriminating against certain people albeit IC or OOC, which is a good thing and how it should be. 

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2 minutes ago, Wremlish said:

 

Honestly, my experience with mechanic roleplay is it isn't detailed enough. It's no secret how much money can be farmed through the mechanic job and I think we've all seen first-hand how many players will just sit with their /bad up doing some lack lustre almost copy and paste roleplay lines to grind their way through the roleplay and get as much money as they can.

 

However, in the defence of mechanic garages. When done correctly not only the roleplay, but the garage itself supports and pushes for the education of it's members. I can't remember the name of the garage now, but there used to be a county garage which had a whole channel in their Discord to teach players how to realistically go about doing various things on a vehicle. Be that resprays, installing a turbocharger, doing window tints, whatever. Also, side-note I know a lot of mechanic garages will now do trainee or apprentice roles, to aid in the IC and OOC teaching process of mechanic roleplay.

 

I think what you're beginning to talk about isn't "hyperrealism" but just clear cut gatekeeping. If a player is restricting or judging another player off of the detail of someone's roleplay, when it comes to a technical level and know how. They're just blatantly gatekeeping that roleplay and making it less accessible to new players, by raising the bar for entry to an unreasonable level. I do think this community is better than a lot of other communities for gatekeeping, however it does still exist.

 

Yup, I've seen some factions (and especially businesses) with entire channels dedicated to getting new people started with either their own learning materials or links to various websites and articles. I think that's absolutely amazing and it actually helps people, especially new players and those who want to try out something entirely new. That should be standard practice, honestly!

 

You're right, though. It's not necessarily hyperrealism but rather gatekeeping role-play. It's more appropriate phrasing, I'll modify the title. Thanks for the contribution.

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  • Mahitto changed the title to Hyperrealism and gatekeeping role-play
1 minute ago, Mahitto said:

You're right, though. It's not necessarily hyperrealism but rather gatekeeping role-play. It's more appropriate phrasing, I'll modify the title. Thanks for the contribution.

 

Follow-up to that:

 

If a person thinks that another player is gatekeeping, honestly, bring it up to them in private DMs (and I don't mean that in an accusatory calling them out kinda way, but rather to start a dialogue). I think sometimes people that have this level of knowledge towards a certain area of roleplay often forget that maybe those around them don't have that same level of knowledge, so they go about their day expecting everyone to know the same things. 

 

Sometimes it seems like there's a lot of fear towards being exposed for not knowing certain areas of roleplay, but in my experience whenever I just ask someone that is knowledgeable on that roleplay they're more than happy to go through explaining to with me. But, again. I don't know your personal experiences and what you've interacted with on the server.

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I also feel like there's a stigma against factions that allow "noob" players to join. Much like me and joining my main faction, they took me in and taught me everything I needed to know, which in turn helped my roleplay abilities. A lot of these factions that do this receive a title of "the whole faction is filled with noobs." I think everyone should remember where they all started when interacting with people who are relatively new, and if you see something you don't like you should approach that person on an OOC side of things.

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7 minutes ago, Bandit. said:

I also feel like there's a stigma against factions that allow "noob" players to join. Much like me and joining my main faction, they took me in and taught me everything I needed to know, which in turn helped my roleplay abilities. A lot of these factions that do this receive a title of "the whole faction is filled with noobs." I think everyone should remember where they all started when interacting with people who are relatively new, and if you see something you don't like you should approach that person on an OOC side of things.

 

The saying "the faction is filled with noobs" implies that the nooby players are in management of the faction as well. I literally see no problem with some lower ranking characters in the faction doing a bit shittier portrayal because they're still learning the ropes, but if the nooby players are in charge of the faction, they will never enforce standards that they themselves don't follow.

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As a new player I felt that playing a specifically clueless fresh out of water character(character raised in my home country, but with a different background to mine), so to speak was a good choice for allowing myself to learn parts of the rp, before making a character that actually knew some sort of technical skill or was immersed in a certain American subculture(Sureno, street gangster, etc). Sure some parts of the character might borrow from my actual vague experiences in my own country, but I think this is a good compromise that balances self-inserting with portraying someone completely different.

 

The one thing I still have trouble with on this server would basically be attempting to portray any type of American-born subculture's dialect or accent in text form. The slang, accents and lingo are completely alien to me as an urbanised Australian with a wog accent, despite us being an English speaking country. It's very hard to switch off and try to type differently from what you'd normally do in other situations.

 

I do however sprinkle basic Spanish words into my character's dialect to spice things up. Honestly, I'd probably have an easier time portraying someone speaking a different language rather than a Davis gangbanger broken English dialect. I do hope that factions don't gatekeep on the way you speak ingame.

Edited by El Bandito
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