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Hyperrealism and gatekeeping role-play


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NOTE: What I mean by hyperrealism is setting the bare minimum requirements to be too high and uselessly technical and not provide people with ways to enter. I'm not talking about realism = simply looking for properly researched and realistic characters.

 

To branch off another thread in this sub-forum, I was thinking how much we're leaning towards hyperrealism lately, and how damaging that actually is for the community.

 

What I mean by hyperrealism is an extreme and useless focus on highly technical or extensive knowledge. This has been happening more and more lately within various people, businesses and factions. I don't want this discussion to be about any specific entities, but rather the concept itself. What do you think about it as an idea, about the effect it has on the community, on both new and veteran players alike, what would you do about it etc.?

 

My personal opinion is that it was brought around with good intentions but has since turned into something extremely negative. It raised four issues that I've been able to both initially identify and to keep identifying ever since:

  • there's an impossible barrier of entry into lots of jobs and factions - most people do not have the OOC knowledge (or time, or interest) to fully learn everything (and more) of what a paramedic, mechanic, manager etc. would do in real life. If you've never role-played something before, chances are you have no knowledge nor the ability to quickly become an expert.
  • such role-play is unenjoyable and long for spectators and involved parties as well.
  • it's useless as it doesn't add anything valuable to the interaction or to a character's development.
  • it promotes self-insertions and if it becomes the norm, it will do so even more; more people will simply role-play what they're relatively good at OOCly and not even bother trying anything new.

 

I don't want this to be confused with putting effort, detail or research into your work or role-play - that is, has always been and will always be a great thing to see. What I'm talking about is it being considered sub-par and not enough to have general knowledge of how a medical procedure is done, how a vehicle is fixed, how weapons work. None of these are actual examples of things I've seen, but rather ideas about the topic at hand. Unfortunately, more and more factions and businesses have been promoting this lately, and even if the intentions are good, I don't think the outcome is nor will it be.

 

This is something that I've noticed more in legal factions and businesses, but it's likely happening in illegal environments as well. I can't comment on that, though. I'm really curious what the community feels about this and what some opinions are on the topic.

Edited by Mahitto
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I'll speak on factions, because that's what I am most familiar with.. Some factions (illegal) only want people who are very skilled and have experience roleplaying whatever concept it is they are trying to portray, and there's nothing wrong with that. The way around this is joining factions that don't have this barrier and are more friendly to noobs and willing to help, a lot of times these factions are horrible due to the amount of noobs, but at least they are trying to teach them. For illegal RP most base ideas of a concept can be explained to a noob within a few days of roleplaying with them.

 

As for jobs and stuff like that, I don't really understand the point of making a character already have the experience before getting the job, it could take maybe an hour to give a basic rundown of what you're supposed to be doing on the job, some such as PD/SD/FD you need to do prior research, but it shouldn't be nothing too tiring, just a few hours of research and you should be good for entry level positions. 

 

A good rule is to always research what you are trying to portray before you're doing it, so if you wish to roleplay doing a certain job, do a small amount of research so you aren't completely oblivious to the terms and stuff happening around you.  

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When I started out in LSFD (for example) I knew jackshit about paramedicine, EMS practices, general treatments and whatnot. It didn't take me long, thanks to people like @KinnyWynny, for me to start picking things up. 

The roles sometime require you to do some base research to enhance it but nothing too hard, I know a lot of people that are currently in LSFD that aren't EMS in real life and still do the job. 

Just for reference, I am a software developer in real life, I have gone in plenty of fields in GTA:W and nothing even closely related to software development. So... It's not that bad, just requires a little bit of research.

Sorry for the tag, weather dude ❤️

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9 minutes ago, DONALDTRUMPFROMFLATS said:

A good rule is to always research what you are trying to portray before you're doing it, so if you wish to roleplay doing a certain job, do a small amount of research so you aren't completely oblivious to the terms and stuff happening around you.  

 

The problem and reason for this topic is that more and more businesses are moving from that requirement and require extensive, real-world knowledge of these concepts. Reading some articles doesn't cut it. To make it a bit clearer, one example is one of my characters having applied for a position as a gun store clerk and being asked to go through a basic theoretical and practical test which actually included some pretty in-deth knowledge on weapons, how they work, types and brands, models and calibers, procedures, gun laws and such. I was lucky to have some experience in this area but for someone who wants to start learning or role-playing this, or someone new to the server, that would've been absolutely impossible to pass, unless they've had a pretty strong passion and a lengthy history with guns. I've seen the same thing happening in factions and businesses, mechanic garages, nightclubs, security companies and many others and it seems to be a trend that's spreading.

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how does realism cause self-insertion into roleplay? i'd say it does quite the opposite. same thing applies to high faction standards, i'd dare to say that it's rather a good thing that certain factions double-check their prospective members in terms of the rp quality that they present.

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Just now, i dont wanna od in LA said:

how does realism cause self-insertion into roleplay? i'd say it does quite the opposite. same thing applies to high faction standards, i'd dare to say that it's rather a good thing that certain factions double-check their prospective members in terms of the rp quality that they present.

 

Realism doesn't - it does promote role-play and allows people to detach from who they really are in real life. But hyperrealism does.

 

If you want to role-play as an accountant and I require you to take an extensive theoretical and practical test on financial and managerial accounting, coming up with and generating an actual balance sheet and dynamic cash-flow forecasting, and to also audit the business' acounts and make sure they comply with tax laws, then you'll be lost, unless you have that knowledge in real life and self-insert. You can't do research because it takes weeks, months, years to learn and master this stuff.

 

We don't have that as an issue, but it is an issue for medical role-play, for mechanic garages, for some security companies and many other businesses and companies, factions and units within factions. 

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Just now, Mahitto said:

 

Realism doesn't - it does promote role-play and allows people to detach from who they really are in real life. But hyperrealism does.

 

If you want to role-play as an accountant and I require you to take an extensive theoretical and practical test on financial and managerial accounting, coming up with and generating an actual balance sheet and dynamic cash-flow forecasting, and to also audit the business' acounts and make sure they comply with tax laws, then you'll be lost, unless you have that knowledge in real life and self-insert. You can't do research because it takes weeks, months, years to learn and master this stuff.

 

We don't have that as an issue, but it is an issue for medical role-play, for mechanic garages, for some security companies and many other businesses and companies, factions and units within factions. 

That's their choice then. I personally don't see any issues with this. Same way when I ran a law firm I'd rather surround myself with people who are willing to put the work in and actively research rather than pull some Better Call Saul stuff on me. If somebody wants to set the entry bar very high, then so be it. 

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Roleplay that greatly affects other character’s fate shouldn’t be something everyone can do without some form of real life knowledge or experience.

 

It’s a game after all but I wouldn’t want a lawyer with no experience representing my character, same with hospital staff, paramedics and so on.

 

The part where I agree with you is unnecessary checks for businesses which don’t alter a characters fate, such as a mechanic or a store clerk.

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43 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

To branch off another thread in this sub-forum, I was thinking how much we're leaning towards hyperrealism lately, and how damaging that actually is for the community.

 

What I mean by hyperrealism is an extreme and useless focus on highly technical or extensive knowledge. This has been happening more and more lately within various people, businesses and factions. I don't want this discussion to be about any specific entities, but rather the concept itself. What do you think about it as an idea, about the effect it has on the community, on both new and veteran players alike, what would you do about it etc.?

 

My personal opinion is that it was brought around with good intentions but has since turned into something extremely negative. It raised four issues that I've been able to both initially identify and to keep identifying ever since:

  • there's an impossible barrier of entry into lots of jobs and factions - most people do not have the OOC knowledge (or time, or interest) to fully learn everything (and more) of what a paramedic, mechanic, manager etc. would do in real life. If you've never role-played something before, chances are you have no knowledge nor the ability to quickly become an expert.
  • such role-play is unenjoyable and long for spectators and involved parties as well.
  • it's useless as it doesn't add anything valuable to the interaction or to a character's development.
  • it promotes self-insertions and if it becomes the norm, it will do so even more; more people will simply role-play what they're relatively good at OOCly and not even bother trying anything new.

 

I don't want this to be confused with putting effort, detail or research into your work or role-play - that is, has always been and will always be a great thing to see. What I'm talking about is it being considered sub-par and not enough to have general knowledge of how a medical procedure is done, how a vehicle is fixed, how weapons work. None of these are actual examples of things I've seen, but rather ideas about the topic at hand. Unfortunately, more and more factions and businesses have been promoting this lately, and even if the intentions are good, I don't think the outcome is nor will it be.

 

This is something that I've noticed more in legal factions and businesses, but it's likely happening in illegal environments as well. I can't comment on that, though. I'm really curious what the community feels about this and what some opinions are on the topic.


So you’d rather have a cop that doesn’t understand his own firearm, and a paramedic who can’t differentiate between wound packing and a gauze pad? 

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There should definitely be a balance between "hyperrealism" and realistic roleplay. When it comes down to it there shouldn't be an OOC knowledge level of entry barrier for any profession, faction, community, etc. However, all players entering a new form of roleplay, which maybe they don't have the most OOC knowledge of should be extensively researching that avenue of roleplay before entering it. For example, the amount of new mechanics that get caught out by the "blinker fluid" line and actually try to roleplay blinker fluid as a thing. 

 

Factions like the Fire Department, LEO factions, basically any legal faction there's a baseline knowledge you as a player should be researching and understanding before you apply. What I mean by this, is you shouldn't know how to do a triple heart bypass if you're joining Pillbox Hill Medical Centre as a doctor. But, you should have done the basic research required for you to realistically portray a doctor. Then when required of you to know more specific areas of roleplay, you should be researching them respectively.

 

Part of your initial learning and research should be supplied from the faction you're applying to though. I haven't interacted with all of the legal factions requirement processes by I know that the Fire Department and the Los Santos Police Department do supply a lot of good high quality research and learning materials early on into your recruitment process.

 

47 minutes ago, Mahitto said:
  • such role-play is unenjoyable and long for spectators and involved parties as well.
  • it's useless as it doesn't add anything valuable to the interaction or to a character's development.
  • it promotes self-insertions and if it becomes the norm, it will do so even more; more people will simply role-play what they're relatively good at OOCly and not even bother trying anything new.

 

I would definitely say these first two remarks here are opinion based and I can understand why you think that, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily true. The people doing this "hyperrealistic" roleplay clearly enjoy it, as well as presumably people interacting with them. But, I'm not sure. I'm sure you've seen many examples of this yourself on the server and that's why you're bringing it forward.

 

Could you explain this third point a little more? I'm not sure how this leads to people playing self-inserts. I can understand how OOC knowledge can lead to people gravitating towards roleplay they already know a lot about, but I'm not sure if that automatically means they're doing self-insertion. 

Edited by Wremlish
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