Neutral Characters and the crime rate: What's the point?

[Sheggy]

Want my two cents?

 

There's a huge influx of gang bangers that simply want power, instead of joining the already existing gangs, they want to break off into 900 different fucking gangs and now we have so many gangs that there is just never ending shootings.

 

My solution is simple. We take Davis and Rancho, and push it somewhere else.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Sheggy

[sCrax]

Well first of all we need more serious punishment for people that make the whole illegal roleplay so horrendous. Ban people for repeated offences of DM, chain and unrealistic robberies, looting dead bodies or unrealistic character development. Giving these people 15 unofficial warnings before you ajail them for 10 minutes solves nothing. If someone has been punished for DM 4 times in the past and they are still doing it, they clearly do not care and will continue rule breaking. Might as well just get rid of these people forever.

 

Would also be good to hear an official statement from IFM and RPQM on how they plan to battle the high crime rate and unrealistic environment that we have created.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

i have a pretty simple solution guys. don't create characters that are your avatars and go clubbing because you can't do it irl. create meaningful roleplay instead of focusing on being the top dog aka mr everything aka i work juggle 3 fulltime jobs and still have time to go clubbing or robbing people. don't be afraid to roleplay a character that isn't a 1:1 replica of your favorite celebrity. high crime rate isn't the problem here. it's the quality of roleplay presented by certain groups and individuals & IFM seemingly doing little to nothing to counter it because this server doesn't have any set it stone rp standards and i've been saying this for nearly 6 months now. rule 0 is the biggest issue here.

Edited December 30, 2021 by i dont wanna od in LA

[RickTheNoble]

15 minutes ago, radreaper100 said:

what you don't like being robbed in your backyard or something?

 

 

Seems to happen no matter where you go sadly. The back yard of my character has a body count in the double digits at this points, it's ridiculous. Try and sit for more than 15 minutes passive RP'ing in your backyard, you'll see a couple of cars doing slow passes and eventually have 2 or 3 MASK's walking from the back yard to get you. It's just so tiring at this rate. Heck, I even tried to have a walk along the beach a few months back. I knew I was going to get robbed so I dumped EVERYTHING in my car besides a phone. I walked from the beach to an open business to get a drink (one street besides the beach) and got mugged 3 minutes into walking.

[Fancy Toothpaste]

I've been playing the server since August of 2019; back when it took thirty minutes just to load into the game and the sync was so bad you'd be seeing cars teleporting down the street like some kind of glitch in the matrix. I remember that while loading into the server, we had to hold SHIFT+TAB to bring up the Steam overlay just so the game would finish loading. When I started playing there weren't even 300 people to rub together at peak hours, and there was usually only one business open at a time.

Yet, I enjoyed the experience of playing GTA:W in spite of these technical hiccups, because there was plenty of good, and interesting roleplay to go around. There was always the promise that those technical issues would be ironed out in the future; the promise that the server would age like fine wine, and get better with more time and development. I'm sorry to say that even with all the technical advancements GTA:W has made when it comes to features, they forgot to improve the one feature that drew me to this server in the first place: The quality of roleplay.

I'm not trying to make false equivocations to "the good ol' days" or try to impose that things were perfect then. Every era in a server has its problems, but with so many poorly thought out decisions, I'm forced to conclude that this server is lowering its standards to attract the largest player base possible; conflating quantity with quality.

The IC population portrayal was decided at a time when I was engaged heavily in Illegal RP, and it's honestly one of the worst decisions this staff team has ever stuck to. It was a safeguard for poor robbery RP, and extremely public shootings to flourish, with protections being handed out to police stations and government buildings while ignoring the many other 'monkeys in the middle. It was a license to steal.

This server feels more and more like a Cops Vs. Robbers plus victims server every day. Those appear to be the three roles: a cop, a robber, or a victim of senseless violence. Many Illegal RPers simply see civilian RPers as cash registers to be wrung. They see their businesses as piggie banks. The only way for civilian RPers to stop themselves from being constant victims is to limit themselves to wherever is “safe”. I’ve read reports of characters being kidnapped and murdered as to not leave witnesses, forced to jump off cliffs, beaten for not having “good loot” on them, killed for “snitching” by simply reporting the incident to police, and so on.

I imagine this drastic shift in quality is because of several reasons: The IC population portrayal enables poor roleplay to flourish anywhere and everywhere, the laughably lenient administrative punishments that fail to teach repeat rule-breakers the error of their actions, and in-fact just teach them to be smarter when covering up their rule-breaking activity, and the existence of RPQM which has resulted in people almost never being punished for their questionable portrayal during rulebreaking situations, as that is now a “RPQM concern”; as though we don’t all play on the same server and roleplay quality isn’t all of our concerns.

There is no one-sized fits all solution to this issue. I wish it was that simple. Everyone talking about bringing the Park Rangers into Los Santos is missing the scope of the issue. Nearly everyone I’ve spoken to regardless of the type of roleplay they engage in seems to agree that the server is regressing in its quality. When you foster an environment that attracts and caters to poor roleplayers, you, in turn, repel good roleplayers from entering or immersing themselves in the community. Everyone who plays GTA:W has to lower their standards of roleplay to the standards presented by the server in order to enjoy it. With such a large and dedicated player base, the server should be raising their standards, not becoming a victim of them.
 

[Illusory]

8 minutes ago, sCrax said:

Well first of all we need more serious punishment for people that make the whole illegal roleplay so horrendous. Ban people for repeated offences of DM, chain and unrealistic robberies, looting dead bodies or unrealistic character development. Giving these people 15 unofficial warnings before you ajail them for 10 minutes solves nothing. If someone has been punished for DM 4 times in the past and they are still doing it, they clearly do not care and will continue rule breaking. Might as well just get rid of these people forever.

 

Would also be good to hear an official statement from IFM and RPQM on how they plan to battle the high crime rate and unrealistic environment that we have created.

 

 

Thanks man you hit the nail right on the head there. You're right 100%

[992]

8 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

i have a pretty simple solution guys. don't create characters that are your avatars and go clubbing because you can't do it irl. create meaningful roleplay instead of focusing on being the top dog aka mr everything aka i work juggle 3 fulltime jobs and still have time to go clubbing or robbing people. don't be afraid to roleplay a character that isn't a 1:1 replica of your favorite celebrity. high crime rate isn't the problem here. it's the quality of roleplay presented by certain groups and individuals & IFM seemingly doing little to nothing to counter it because this server doesn't have any set it stone rp standards and i've been saying this for nearly 6 months now. rule 0 is the biggest issue here.

Big time agree. It’s the QUALITY of the RP that’s the issue. That and I’m convinced that a majority of robberies are OOC’ly motivated. There are some great illegal RP’ers out there but they are overshadowed by the script item hunters hiding behind their wall of “it’s for the RP”. No it’s not. Trucking makes this glaringly obvious. It is known that truckers don’t have to carry cash anymore but they are frequently targeted anyways because why? People assume they are carrying guns and/or drugs. This isn’t an IC motivation in most cases. Going on convoys to rob truckers is ridiculous. Sure it may happen, but not DAILY. This isn’t the 50’s where you’re robbing bootleggers for their stash. I’m not sure there is a fix to this either. You can’t change a mentality that’s far too gone at this point without some major and potentially upsetting changes. IFM won’t do it. That’s apparent already because we’ve arrived at this point. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by - Alfie -

[Hjorthorn]

I've moved to primarily play in low-pop hours because if I don't, my civilian char frequently gets harassed or robbed while doing things like window shopping in Rockford Hills or jogging near ULSA. I've legitimately had a 13 year old character park their bright red Prius on the sidewalk in front of me in Rockford, get out, and immediately ask my character (who is 32) out on a date. Upon declining they instantly began to ask for money and threaten to shoot me, only leaving when I pulled a knife. What part of that sounds like realistic portrayal or even minimal effort roleplay?

[Topinambour]

Hmm I won't talk about the whole SAPR thing because I don't believe it's part of the problem or solution and a bit out of topic ^^'

 

That said, there are a few things I'm wondering about: 

 

The first is the IFM decision that was quoted in the first post: considering a street is IC'ly empty is no players are there is BEYOND ABSURD in any way or form you can ever imagine. No other server that I know of even attempted that. Because there is no way you can present it as something that brings any verisimilitude, or good RP. I'm not even talking about "realism" here: just basic RP creation and vague verisimilitude. Even with those low standards, it's still completely senseless.

 

The best solution I've found so far was one brought by a short-lived server (their dev left, RIP). The map had different areas: no-crime areas, usually around police stations, banks, ... like we have here. Low-crime areas, that are likely to be more wealthy, or full of CCTV, or more frequented, kinda like Vinewood Boulevard: if you do any sort of crime there, the victim can call the police automatically (basically a witness will do it) AND the entire scene will either be filmed on CCTV or reported by a witness when the cops arrive - description of the perps, car, etc. And finally, the normal areas, where it's freestyle. 

 

Inb4 "this kills illegal RP!" first of all, most good illegal RP has nothing to do with robberies, so there's that. But also, it forced robbers to think a lot more carefully about how they do it. I got robbed there once during the short time the server opened and it was pretty good RP overall. Some areas that shouldn't have insane crime rates (like Vinewood Bd or Legion Square) were a lot nicer for legal RP'ers, and other areas were a lot more dangerous - which made a lot more sense ^^

 

The second is the extreme focus on script stuff for cops and robbers. But that's a problem that was already mentioned back in 2018 when the server was 6 months old ^^' A consequence of that is that making a legal business work can be exceedingly difficult, if it's not a bar/club/garage. I'm not even talking about money - although it may be a topic - but about basic functionalities. New mappings for different kinds of shops could be nice for example. Or even basic sports - tennis, golf, climbing, basketball, those wouldn't only be for legal RP'ers. Being able to embed an HTML 5 game for the arcades (provided it's validated first) instead of just /roll'ing? There's stuff to be done ^^

 

Now don't get me wrong, I know development isn't easy. I'm /NOT/ saying "this shit is ez devs be lazy", far from it. Something as simple-looking as a basketball activity could take a lot of coding, and testing. What I mean though, is that it may be nice for such things to be prioritized - for more dev time to be allowed for non-LEO/non-illegal stuff.

 

The third is more minor, but there seems to be a widespread belief on the server that legal RP = paperwork. The subject is even broached in the rules suggestions, the topic is named "Revise server-related applications & bureaucratic steps". Some people in there keep saying "it's not that hard to fill a few forms!" without even wondering why the forms exist in the first place, and which purpose they serve... if any. I can't know how many people were discouraged from going into legal RP but I'm wondering. And I know for a fact, my current char is my first 100% legal one, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't just give up and go back full illegal because of how absurd it is becoming :x 

 

The fourth may be linked to the fact that minor characters are allowed. I know it's a hot topic, one discussed on "Rule 6 - Removing under 16s". I don't know for a fact that minor characters lead to bad RP - I only got my own personal experience. No firm stats. But every single time - EVERY ONE - I got involved in a shitty scene with very low RP standards, it was when facing a pack of (M)s. 😕 Which is a shame because I've also met the opposite, a few players interpreting kids really well. They were attaching, interesting, had specific traits of character, ... But you could make the same character who's 18. And maybe disallowing minors may also discourage poor RP'ers, who appear to favor those younger characters. 

 

If, as some mentioned, "the entire illegal scene" relies on minor characters, then there is a clear problem with the entire illegal scene. Also, the coolest and best illegal RP I've seen so far never involved a single minor, so again I'm not sure where that's coming from.

 

 

There's probably more, but I'm mostly wondering about those four :x 

Also, those four were /repeatedly/ mentioned on the forums, but never truly addressed. I don't know if it's voluntary ("We don't give a shit about legal RP'ers, you're just NPCs here to make illegals and LEO have fun"), if it's more complicated, ...? I can't know because once more, those were never actually addressed :x 

[ENDREAS]

8 minutes ago, Slappy said:

Problem is when you get so many people from different backgrounds and ideas of what a serious RP should be, their is gonna be conflict. You can't please everyone all the time, so like most businesses they will follow the trend which tends to head towards cops and robbers. I would say the majority of people who play are either illegal or legal so most of the content released will be for them. For a long time illegal role players complained that legal role players got it all, but I feel with the new schemes and tier system that is implemented or being talked about they are heading the right way for illegal roleplay in general.

 

As for neutral players it's difficult to implement as its a niche sector. Like you have someone who plays a journalist who might want one thing, then a person who roleplays a construction worker to want another. So you won't ever get everything you want for your certain character. But there has been alot added over the years, news channels which you can access on the server with a command when it's announced. Construction vehicles which can be used to RP building stuff. Medical roleplay which is the most in-depth from any other server from what I've seen in my experience. 

As for robbery RP being boring for one party. If roleplayed correctly what's the problem with it? Dozens happen everyday in a big city no matter where you are, which is the purpose of a gated community in America as they don't feel safe out of it. People don't like playing to lose no matter how much they say they do, but if it's not roleplayed correctly report it in game or on the forum's.

 

The admin team are undermanned and in some places under experienced in the knowledge that is needed to properly maintain a high level of accurate roleplay. I'm not saying I know everything about everything and that's my point, no amount of VICE videos or YouTube whistle blowers can teach us everything.

 

The way new people are treated on this server is pretty laxed, so new people can learn how to roleplay properly without having super experienced and elitist people lord over them if they make a small mistake.

 

TLDR: I feel like server offers the best all round roleplay experience for all types of roleplay, I feel like the way they don't just out right ban is commendable giving people a chance to learn. The admin team try there best with the limited experience they have of legal and illegal situations.

Right, while I'm completely on board with you about allowing people to learn and improve their RP, what most people on here were complaining about is completely different.

 

We were reffering to the more serious and unfortunately numerous counts of sub par RP examples we've all experienced IG and seen on the reports page. No one is advocating for unnecessarily harsh punishments for players who are actually trying to improve and doing their best to bring good RP for others and themselves. What the general consensus seems to be from neutral RPERs side is that a lot of illegal rpers only get a slap on the hand for extremely unrealistic, malicious and even toxic rp, which leads to no change in their RP. Afterall, why should they try to improve if there are no consequences to ruining someone else's RP?

 

I don't speak for everyone but I guarantee you most of the legal and neutral RPERs on this server would welcome illegal rp as long as it's well done and makes sense. No rushed robberies with 1 line of RP, no rehash of the same old gangbanging characters who seem to have no personality of their own, no fear for their life and freedom.