The state of break-ins.

[Procaine]

I agree, there needs to be more break-ins occuring. Right now, the influx of shootings are the only roleplay that the LSPD and LSSD have. Responding to more realistic property crimes is not only more realistic, but changes the flow of the roleplay.

[Mahitto]

3 hours ago, Procaine said:

I agree, there needs to be more break-ins occuring. Right now, the influx of shootings are the only roleplay that the LSPD and LSSD have. Responding to more realistic property crimes is not only more realistic, but changes the flow of the roleplay.

 

And, as per Bospy's and Zaxer's suggestions, there should be more false positives. I'd love some passive role-play of responding to a false property alarm (either NPCed or triggered by mistake by the owner or some visitors).

 

Right now, you can't have that. There was a property alarm an hours or so ago, on Grove street. I checked it out - there were already 5 PD/SD cruisers, people stacked up with automatic weapons at the door etc. Now I don't know where you all live but I've seen some parts of both the US and Europe - that doesn't happen for a regular alarm. We need to find some middle ground and turn this into a more common, passive experience instead of... this.

[Engelbert]

20 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

 

And, as per Bospy's and Zaxer's suggestions, there should be more false positives. I'd love some passive role-play of responding to a false property alarm (either NPCed or triggered by mistake by the owner or some visitors).

 

Right now, you can't have that. There was a property alarm an hours or so ago, on Grove street. I checked it out - there were already 5 PD/SD cruisers, people stacked up with automatic weapons at the door etc. Now I don't know where you all live but I've seen some parts of both the US and Europe - that doesn't happen for a regular alarm. We need to find some middle ground and turn this into a more common, passive experience instead of... this.

Thing that always pops up everywhere regarding reasoning or an explanation why this or that happens, is that people compare it to real life. We shouldn't do that because simply server and the state the roleplay is in, is nowhere comparable to real life. Reason why you seen 5 cruisers in Grove street is simple. It is a known hot zone when it comes to crime, you wouldn't go to such area just with two cops to verify an alarm location. Then, we are not living in 90s anymore where alarms connected to nearest PD were rare and mostly costed a fortune. I live in EU and my apartment has such alarm, even camera hub is there and that's not anywhere near a highrise equipment, such technology is cheap today and pretty easy to install. Problem is, that people should put an application for such alarm during their apartment mapping or they should buy it and install it via roleplay. If it gets registered as an alarm linked to a Security company, the company should send a patrol, if it's an alarm connected to PD, PD is responsible for checking out the location when the alarm goes off. If we wanna talk about these things, we could also add more safes. Safes with combination locks are obsolete. You have armored safe key locks or fingerprint or face recognition locks today. Also people should be allowed to disable an alarm, but they need to know what alarm is in the house and how to disable it. Cutting cables is one thing, but alarm usually has back up source for that. Irl I work for a security company as a tech. It is pretty easy to outfit an apartment or a house with endgame alarm and locks, but when it comes to security, apartments always win as places, which are hard to break into.

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It actually works this way, least with tech I am working with. You get an armored door with reinforced frame. Lock is mechanical and electronic, which means the silent alarm hidden in the doorframe is triggered when someone inserts something else into the lock or tampers with it or tries to pry the door open. Alarm is caught by our operator and visually verified by a camera the comes with the package and is usually installed near the door. Upon verification a patrol is dispatched with guaranteed arrival within 5-10 minutes since first alarm signal. This could be a nice addition which also servers as a money sink, because this is paid monthly, you pay one-time for the installation, but monthly for patrol coverage. The door works also without the alarm by the way, which means even if you don't wanna pay for the patrol coverage, you still get armored door with electronic or mechanical lock.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Engelbert

[Mahitto]

4 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

Thing that always pops up everywhere regarding reasoning or an explanation why this or that happens, is that people compare it to real life. We shouldn't do that because simply server and the state the roleplay is in, is nowhere comparable to real life. Reason why you seen 5 cruisers in Grove street is simple. It is a known hot zone when it comes to crime, you wouldn't go to such area just with two cops to verify an alarm location. Then, we are not living in 90s anymore where alarms connected to nearest PD were rare and mostly costed a fortune. I live in EU and my apartment has such alarm, even camera hub is there and that's not anywhere near a highrise equipment, such technology is cheap today and pretty easy to install. Problem is, that people should put an application for such alarm during their apartment mapping or they should buy it and install it via roleplay. If it gets registered as an alarm linked to a Security company, the company should send a patrol, if it's an alarm connected to PD, PD is responsible for checking out the location when the alarm goes off. If we wanna talk about these things, we could also add more safes. Safes with combination locks are obsolete. You have armored safe key locks or fingerprint or face recognition locks today. Also people should be allowed to disable an alarm, but they need to know what alarm is in the house and how to disable it. Cutting cables is one thing, but alarm usually has back up source for that. Irl I work for a security company as a tech. It is pretty easy to outfit an apartment or a house with endgame alarm and locks, but when it comes to security, apartments always win as places, which are hard to break into.

 

That's not the problem, though. The problem is that, at the moment on GTA World, there are no false positives. If there's a property alarm, you know for sure that there's someone in there. And that's an issue.

 

The other problem is that the former doesn't only happen in Grove street, and the reason there were so many cops, in this situation, was not because it's a dangerous area. You can have a property alarm literally anywhere - in Vespucci, in Alta, in Paleto or even on some random hill, you'll have an army of people responding. Also, the people in this situation were not just there as backup - they were literally stacking up at the door with automatics.

 

The only way to counter that is with false positives. Alarms should be more frequent, 8-9 out of 10 should be false positives.

[Engelbert]

1 hour ago, Mahitto said:

 

That's not the problem, though. The problem is that, at the moment on GTA World, there are no false positives. If there's a property alarm, you know for sure that there's someone in there. And that's an issue.

 

The other problem is that the former doesn't only happen in Grove street, and the reason there were so many cops, in this situation, was not because it's a dangerous area. You can have a property alarm literally anywhere - in Vespucci, in Alta, in Paleto or even on some random hill, you'll have an army of people responding. Also, the people in this situation were not just there as backup - they were literally stacking up at the door with automatics.

 

The only way to counter that is with false positives. Alarms should be more frequent, 8-9 out of 10 should be false positives.

Yes I can understand that, though this only happens with movement detection alarms I guess, or if you fail to punch in the correct code within time limit once you unlock the door. The latter however is never a false alarm as doors don't just open up by themselves. So if such alarm goes off, there is always someone inside. This is of course more about suggestion, than general topic I guess. It always depends on alarm type, brand, software etc etc.  Then it also depends on where the alarm is located, if it's a house where you can get actual false alarm, or an apartment where occurence of a false alarm is really low usually. For instance, if you are in a house and you go to sleep or go out. You turn the alarm on, which means if someones break your window or kick the door in, the alarm goes off, why? Because much like a car alarm it is triggered by vibrations in the vicinity of the sensor. Each hit or punch or kick into the door or a window is captured and verified within a split second. And if you manage to open the door or a window without setting the alarm off, you still need to disable it. When you fail to type the correct code in time, it goes off. False alarms usually happen if you leave window open or if you have a pet.

That said, not every house has alarm I guess, so it should be something you need to buy and install.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Engelbert

[Illusory]

1 hour ago, Engelbert said:

Yes I can understand that, though this only happens with movement detection alarms I guess, or if you fail to punch in the correct code within time limit once you unlock the door. The latter however is never a false alarm as doors don't just open up by themselves. So if such alarm goes off, there is always someone inside. This is of course more about suggestion, than general topic I guess. It always depends on alarm type, brand, software etc etc.  Then it also depends on where the alarm is located, if it's a house where you can get actual false alarm, or an apartment where occurence of a false alarm is really low usually. For instance, if you are in a house and you go to sleep or go out. You turn the alarm on, which means if someones break your window or kick the door in, the alarm goes off, why? Because much like a car alarm it is triggered by vibrations in the vicinity of the sensor. Each hit or punch or kick into the door or a window is captured and verified within a split second. And if you manage to open the door or a window without setting the alarm off, you still need to disable it. When you fail to type the correct code in time, it goes off. False alarms usually happen if you leave window open or if you have a pet.

That said, not every house has alarm I guess, so it should be something you need to buy and install.

 

As somebody whose house irl has motion sensor alarms as well as window and door alarms, yes. Even if you enter the wrong key into the panel a couple times it gives you like 5 chances to type the correct pin in before it calls the police. The only time my alarm would go off is if somebody doesn't enter the key in the required time (it beeps loud as hell if you don't do it so forgetting to do it isn't really possible) or there's motion inside / a window or door is broken/kicked in while the alarm is on. False positives just don't really happen unless you forgot your own code for some reason? Even then you can just call the alarm company and have them not call the cops.

[Jax]

Break in's are horrible for both sides.

From staff's POV: 
 

You see a spam of reports, handle some, then people start PM'ing you because you are on duty out of 12 other admins that are off duty, you finish the report that you currently are handling. You take a look at the break in, basically only thing that I looked at was assets, to check if the person doesn't own 5 cars, and is working at 4 places that require different skills to work there. All checks out? Sure, you take the break in, then boom. You see that it's four masked up dudes ready to do the break in, you mentally prepare yourself for the shit fest, shoot a line of ketamine and cocaine to react fast enough to the 4 people /me's.
 

The break in starts, you first check the interior before accepting it, it's not shit mapped? or is it even mapped? Okay, you go through with the break in.
Is the place somewhere butt fuck nowhere? You let the robbers RP a little before accepting the command. It's in a rich area? Too bad, you accept the break in instantly.
Alarm triggers after what? One me? You as an admin go to be fast enough to reach n' juggle those 4 people spamming me's and god forbid you take too long to respond. Don't forget to do all the /cim's too !!!
Cops show up? Well shit, this is a whole different scene, a shoot out too? Splendid, now a basic break in turns into a 40 minute scene where both parties are not happy and some people are even blaming you for taking too long, etc.
Boom, they staff reporting you for poor decision making and being too slow!!!

Players POV:



Me and the homies waiting on the break in for two hours to be accepted, just to have the alarm triggered within 30 seconds and us having to baby driver out of the cop chase.

TLDR: Break in's are cancer, alarms broken, some people map in bunkers with eye and finger scans, some people spam /me's non stop and you have to juggle all of them.
They are not fun for anyone. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Jax

[nateX]

9 minutes ago, Jax said:

Break in's are horrible for both sides.

This is possibly the most idiotic but most spot-on accurate analogy I've ever seen from you. 

 

Breakins are not fun. Players have to wait for 2 hours and constantly bother someone about their breakins only to get told to wait or deliberately get put at the back of the list and admins have to write faster than stenographers in court. I once dealt with an SD breakin and although it was very chill, I kept having people spam my PM's to respond to their /me's. At first, it was just 2 people raiding a spot, but 15 minutes later and they squeeze a whole 10-15 people inside a small apartment and just go at it with /me's to the point where I didn't have time to write out one response before getting hit with at least 8 new lines of them searching John Doe's underwear.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the current system is fixable without changing the entire system, but even then, it would require staff moderation because people can't be trusted with that sort of stuff.

[Illusory]

54 minutes ago, nateX said:

This is possibly the most idiotic but most spot-on accurate analogy I've ever seen from you. 

 

Breakins are not fun. Players have to wait for 2 hours and constantly bother someone about their breakins only to get told to wait or deliberately get put at the back of the list and admins have to write faster than stenographers in court. I once dealt with an SD breakin and although it was very chill, I kept having people spam my PM's to respond to their /me's. At first, it was just 2 people raiding a spot, but 15 minutes later and they squeeze a whole 10-15 people inside a small apartment and just go at it with /me's to the point where I didn't have time to write out one response before getting hit with at least 8 new lines of them searching John Doe's underwear.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the current system is fixable without changing the entire system, but even then, it would require staff moderation because people can't be trusted with that sort of stuff.

 

What if there was a way to combine the item stash system and the break-in system? Where items could be placed in specific areas in an interior (either manually by somebody or automatically via other means) and then if people find them they find them. Although I'm sure this might result in people bombing Y through the entire interior but then the admin's job would be to only spectate the breakin instead of having to provide RP for the location of each item.

[El Bandito]

10 hours ago, Paenymion said:

 

You probably confused them by using report.  If it's a PERSON you want to rob (the cashier), don't you just use /rob and then do it?  /breakin is for closed properties.

The rules say smaller in the moment robberies on cashiers still require admin approval via /report eg: robbing 24/7s. A staff member on discord also told me the same rule applied to all "open businesses" if you wanted to do a stick up with /report rather than a burglary with /breakin. Could've been a one off incident honestly and a misunderstanding. But, it does face similar issues to the /breakin system, it's probably even worse since during the long waiting time for the report, the cashier could leave or end their shift.

 

I just feel that the staff member who did handle my requests ingame should've told me why he was specifically forcing me to use /breakin rather than /report, the latter being the appropriate method according to the server rules. /breakin is not appropriate at all for stick up robberies where you usually have to park your car in a secure location, run through an open door, then quickly threaten the cashier to hand over their money and finally make your exit. With /breakin I would need to stand at the front door with a baseball bat and a bear mask on waiting for a report which would be pretty silly IC and ooc.