Revise server-related applications & bureaucratic steps

[Phased]

Unfortunately, since I set up my account and certain people came into certain roles, and it turn left (in a majority of situations) it's led to a baseline of the concept that red tape is progress.  There is now so much red tape involved that half the time each group between the teams don't know what's been said by one group and IFM have to confirm properties, which then property management decline, but if it was applied for before asking IFM they'd deny it with the reason that they need confirmation from IFM.

 

There's a lot of useless red tape where people are denied businesses that would facilitate fantastic roleplay because they own things like a towtruck, under the pretence of "roleplay quality" when it's wildly irrelevant to the request. 

[Cleveland]

The people who believe the amount of rules and regulations surrounding roleplay is "perfectly fine" are either purposefully ignoring reality for the sake of gratifying a staff administration that couldn't care less about them or have never played before landing in this bureaucratic nightmare that you keep pretending is a roleplay server.

 

It's fairly ironic how the same individuals who in previous communities endlessly complained about the amounts of "useless bureaucracy" aimed at recording IC events in factions they weren't even part of now hold life-and-death power over your ideas, force you to file a business plan like they're the County Treasurer if you want to use a script and can shut you down if your idea of RP doesn't align with their concept of "quality", a word that's so abused it's completely devoid of meaning at this point.

And don't make the mistake of believing that if you commit a mistake they're going to go easy on you, either. Like all truly soulless bureaucracies, its enforcers refuse to hear the reason why you didn't file Permit A38 correctly, they only care that you didn't and how much your punishment is going to be. Good roleplayers would follow the rules, therefore if you don't you clearly are a malicious entity that's here to wreak havoc on the server and destroy this high-standards roleplay paradise they worked so very hard to create, and which actually exists in their imagination only.

 

Of course, you can't expect much more from those who are yet to understand the difference between "realism" and "immersion".

[Wuhtah]

Hi, since PM was mentioned: 

 

Property requests + lease requests (the last 4 cycles 2 props and 2 leases) have all taken less than two weeks, two weeks being the most. It may take longer as we need opinions from different PM members, but you can help speed up this process by giving as much information as you can. There is a small questions guide pinned in the #support channel of PM. 

 

Furnishing isn't PM's job - I won't comment.

 

Requesting a unique item script or a script in general - this generally gets answered within 24-48 hours (depending on holidays as it was a bit delayed this month). You don't need to detail your project, most of the PM team knows your stuff. Link your property request in there and go into specifics of what items you'll be created. Max 2-3 sentences. Also - since someone else commented that this should be within the same step - we request for this to be done AFTER the mapping so we can check out the interior to make sure it's within the dimensions and such. It's sort of a double-check. 

 

The rest doesn't involved PM - so I won't comment on. 

 

While I understand that it's annoying to have to request for a business through PM instead of outright buying one from a player (most times) - this is to prevent players from getting businesses that have RPQM issues/portrayal issues to limit the RPQM reports for that subteam, to help promote good RP and not have to get as many /report's or even property reports about inactivity, unrealistic interiors, etc. The requests are there for a reason. I know the frustrations but I do remember when requests took 2-3 months. Now they take less than two weeks (I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HOUSE REQUESTS.) If you're asking for PM to take even less time for requests, it is too unrealistic as we have IRL jobs/responsibilities and I am proud of the team for coming this far and kicking ass. There is still a lot we can improve on of course, and people still do not realize that the requests (AGAIN, NOT HOUSE REQUESTS) take less than two weeks now. We also have a calendar up to help be transparent with when the requests open/close, and I'm working on developing an available 'leasing' list for the available leases coming up per cycle. 

 

As for the in-character meetings with PM - this will make requests perhaps take longer as we'd have to schedule a time for 2+ PM members to have time to sit down and RP it out with the player (if I'm understanding you correctly.) This is a GOOD idea, but I don't think it'll be realistic in terms of everyone's scheduling. Plus, I'd hate to RP a real estate agent.

 

 

 

[Phased]

4 hours ago, Wuhtah said:

While I understand that it's annoying to have to request for a business through PM instead of outright buying one from a player (most times) - this is to prevent players from getting businesses that have RPQM issues/portrayal issues to limit the RPQM reports for that subteam, to help promote good RP and not have to get as many /report's or even property reports about inactivity, unrealistic interiors, etc. The requests are there for a reason. I know the frustrations but I do remember when requests took 2-3 months. Now they take less than two weeks (I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HOUSE REQUESTS.) If you're asking for PM to take even less time for requests, it is too unrealistic as we have IRL jobs/responsibilities and I am proud of the team for coming this far and kicking ass. There is still a lot we can improve on of course, and people still do not realize that the requests (AGAIN, NOT HOUSE REQUESTS) take less than two weeks now. We also have a calendar up to help be transparent with when the requests open/close, and I'm working on developing an available 'leasing' list for the available leases coming up per cycle. 

Why is there a need to pro-actively prevent the possibility of a roleplay quality issue?   Most people aren't on the server to put a six-story nightclub with 25k dance competitions in a shed, and anyone willing to go into the effort to create an application for a business is going to at least try to take it seriously.   You guys would save so much time if you weren't doing a deep dive into every requesting characters garage, properties, and jobs before then waiting to see if the interior fits the building. Surely, if you instead went with the approach of handling a report on a poorly done business instead of putting all that effort in beforehand, it’ll save PM so much time in the long run?

 

Imagine if the police started arresting people because they meet the profile of someone who might commit a crime, or the DMV started stripping licenses if someone buys a car that was built from the design of a car for drag racing?  It's a ton of work in advance that you guys are going to be burning so much time doing when it's unlikely to ever be an issue.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Phased

[99]

16 minutes ago, Phased said:

Why is there a need to pro-actively prevent the possibility of a roleplay quality issue?   Most people aren't on the server to put a six-story nightclub with 25k dance competitions in a shed, and anyone willing to go into the effort to create an application for a business is going to at least try to take it seriously. You guys would save so much time if you weren't doing a deep dive into every requesting characters garage, properties, and jobs before then waiting to see if the interior fits the building. Surely, if you instead went with the approach of handling a report on a poorly done business instead of putting all that effort in beforehand, it’ll save PM so much time in the long run?

Surely you're not being naive in thinking there aren't people who wouldn't break or bend the rules if given the chance. Role play quality checks are absolutely necessary to filter out the noise. If they put all their effort into solely reactive administration after the fact responding to a report, damage has already been done by someone running a shitty business until someone decides to report. That method isn't all that effective as it stands now because many people don't even bother to report. You can't rely solely on reports of players to filter out role play quality issues. There needs to be a filter on the front end and proactive RPQM in-game to keep people in check, not one or the other.

[Wuhtah]

34 minutes ago, Phased said:

Why is there a need to pro-actively prevent the possibility of a roleplay quality issue?   Most people aren't on the server to put a six-story nightclub with 25k dance competitions in a shed, and anyone willing to go into the effort to create an application for a business is going to at least try to take it seriously.   You guys would save so much time if you weren't doing a deep dive into every requesting characters garage, properties, and jobs before then waiting to see if the interior fits the building. Surely, if you instead went with the approach of handling a report on a poorly done business instead of putting all that effort in beforehand, it’ll save PM so much time in the long run?

 

Imagine if the police started arresting people because they meet the profile of someone who might commit a crime, or the DMV started stripping licenses if someone buys a car that was built from the design of a car for drag racing?  It's a ton of work in advance that you guys are going to be burning so much time doing when it's unlikely to ever be an issue.

 

You have a few good points, however - I think you are mistaken. Reviewing the request itself doesn't take long at all. Go to the UCP, check out the character, assets, age, admin record, etc. That's basically all to figure that out and then look over the request. Leave your opinion, ask questions, etc. The 'time consuming' part is waiting for more PM admins to comment because everyone has a different time zone schedule and IRL responsibilities. Sometimes we're able to get together and ham them out super quickly. It truly is an easier process than property reports. With that, you have to figure out more proof than what the person is given you, chatlogs, logs, get in contact with the player which they could easily blank you for up to a week (this is usually the time we allow before we revoke). Then, if it's a character portrayal issue/realism - RPQM has to come in and made a report and more admins come into place which ultimately takes a longer time to handle. 

 

 

[JackieH]

5 hours ago, Wuhtah said:

Hi, since PM was mentioned: 

 

Property requests + lease requests (the last 4 cycles 2 props and 2 leases) have all taken less than two weeks, two weeks being the most. It may take longer as we need opinions from different PM members, but you can help speed up this process by giving as much information as you can. There is a small questions guide pinned in the #support channel of PM. 

 

Furnishing isn't PM's job - I won't comment.

 

Requesting a unique item script or a script in general - this generally gets answered within 24-48 hours (depending on holidays as it was a bit delayed this month). You don't need to detail your project, most of the PM team knows your stuff. Link your property request in there and go into specifics of what items you'll be created. Max 2-3 sentences. Also - since someone else commented that this should be within the same step - we request for this to be done AFTER the mapping so we can check out the interior to make sure it's within the dimensions and such. It's sort of a double-check. 

 

The rest doesn't involved PM - so I won't comment on. 

 

While I understand that it's annoying to have to request for a business through PM instead of outright buying one from a player (most times) - this is to prevent players from getting businesses that have RPQM issues/portrayal issues to limit the RPQM reports for that subteam, to help promote good RP and not have to get as many /report's or even property reports about inactivity, unrealistic interiors, etc. The requests are there for a reason. I know the frustrations but I do remember when requests took 2-3 months. Now they take less than two weeks (I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HOUSE REQUESTS.) If you're asking for PM to take even less time for requests, it is too unrealistic as we have IRL jobs/responsibilities and I am proud of the team for coming this far and kicking ass. There is still a lot we can improve on of course, and people still do not realize that the requests (AGAIN, NOT HOUSE REQUESTS) take less than two weeks now. We also have a calendar up to help be transparent with when the requests open/close, and I'm working on developing an available 'leasing' list for the available leases coming up per cycle. 

 

As for the in-character meetings with PM - this will make requests perhaps take longer as we'd have to schedule a time for 2+ PM members to have time to sit down and RP it out with the player (if I'm understanding you correctly.) This is a GOOD idea, but I don't think it'll be realistic in terms of everyone's scheduling. Plus, I'd hate to RP a real estate agent.

As a PM member, basically this ^

This month I took it upon myself to try and push as many properties to be handled because it's holidays and a lot of people want to take a break, enjoy their free time and time with their families. I've done my absolute best to have most of them ready so other PM members could give their opinion more easily. Alas, I burned myself out but I kept going, because it's something I proposed to myself and decided to pull through it. (Other PM members also did A LOT of work, not going to throw flowers at myself and say I did it all alone)

Only thing I can say, seeing how PM is progressing as a team, is that I'm proud of every single one of the team's members. They are some of the most hard working people I've ever met and I'm glad I'm part of the team. We are working our asses off to get everything done in a timely manner and figure out ways to be more efficient. It's trial and error until we figure out a better system, which we are doing with each time and we are learning from our mistakes whenever we do them. But, at the end of the day, we keep working as a team, helping each other out and becoming better every day.

This month whoever has been difficult because of Christmas holidays, and inevitably things took longer. But we are on the right track!

Edited December 31, 2021 by JackieH

[Lomadias]

I'll chip in 'cause why not.

 

Wuhtah and Jackie covered basically everything from PM's side. We're finding a good rhythm with the team, December has been slower but ... it's Christmas and we're like every player out there taking time to see the family and take a well earned few weeks to chill before the new year. Adv and I are finding our working groove and Wuhtah and Nightmare are finding theirs, Selena and Frez work hard to manage the whole lot of us and then we've got a fantastic team who work their butts off doing EVERYTHING inbetween. I'm incredibly proud of where we are and what we're achieving and things will continue to improve as we go into 2022.

 

Removing step 1 will see a dramatic increase in businesses where roleplay quality, backstory credibility and overall "concerns" are not addressed. We want to help facilitate roleplay, not stand in the way, therefore most of our requests in the queue sit on "pending" while we discuss with players about handling too many assets, backstory inconsistencies and so on. You'd be surprised how many things we actually accept rather than deny, and we're working to be more transparent, like with Wuhtah's round up post on the property discord that showed just some of the business types we approved. If you write a decent request and you can create a character, you're fine. If you're a roleplay quality concern or your backstory and character has gone from security guard to pro bartender to car dealer and now wants an arcade we're gonna ask questions. Oh he's a 19 year old car fanatic with 1 year experience working with his dad on cars so he knows how to like, fit a headlight, and he's applying to lease a mechanic garage 'cause it "makes sense"? Nah, no bueno. Same goes for your record, without step 1, how do we stop property flippers getting their hands on an easy business? How do we apply consequences of having a recent record and prevent people doing what they want? There's no punishment there, it extends to us to make sure those getting businesses deserve it and can competently roleplay.

 

Step 2 is necessary obviously, it takes time yes but nothing can be done about that. If you want a unique interior that adds to the quality of the business and improves the server, a lil patience is required.

 

Step 3 is a very quick turn over, I'd argue it's irrelevant because you can apply for that during step 2 and immediately after step one. If you don't know where it's going it doesn't really matter because we can move it if placement does move.

 

Step 4, 5 and 6 are IC and part of running a business. Should be a fun part of the whole roleplay. Registering the business makes it "real" for your character. It becomes their future, roleplay it as such and try not to treat it as a chore. For SFM, same again. Mix it up, maybe you've got a faulty sprinkler and the freaking thing triggers while you're all in there. Make it fun? No need for it to be a chore but that's on you, the player. I can't comment on the LFM side of it as I've not really seen what goes on there.

 

Most of 4/5/6 can be achieved during step 2, with the exception being the mapped fire items and inspection, but if you have an idea of when it'll be done, you can be smort smort and arrange inspection ahead of time.

 

Step 7 I do believe could be improved, a suggestion could be made for this.

[Topinambour]

18 minutes ago, Lomadias said:

If you're a roleplay quality concern or your backstory and character has gone from security guard to pro bartender to car dealer and now wants an arcade we're gonna ask questions. Oh he's a 19 year old car fanatic with 1 year experience working with his dad on cars so he knows how to like, fit a headlight, and he's applying to lease a mechanic garage 'cause it "makes sense"? Nah, no bueno.

Just a minor thing, but... :x 

 

It would be nice to not enforce 1950s career standards. Let's be honest here, anyone who's a millenial in the workforce knows that getting 1 job for all your life is absurd and impossible. 

On a purely personal level IRL, I got a scientific GED, then a translation and international relations diploma (0% scientific), worked as a translator (linked to diploma!), as a cook, as an HR assistant, as a bartender, as a community manager, then as a customer service gal', and now marketing consultant. Almost none of my RL jobs have ever had anything to do with my diploma and they look like a completely fucked up mishmash of random stuff - and yet, it happened IRL so it would be pretty weird to say it's "unrealistic" ^^'' A /lot/ of Millenials I know, who graduated around the 2008 crisis, have similarly weird and banged up resumees. 

 

Similarly with my character, he's done a lot of different jobs, but all of them were obtained IC'ly through friends, relations, meetings, ... and the longer a character lives, the more likely he is to have had a lot of various occupations. So, it would be nice to not penalize those whose characters have been developed for longer, or to impose standards that are actually unrealistic (the "you learn one thing and do one job forever" thing) :x 

[Lomadias]

8 hours ago, Topinambour said:

It would be nice to not enforce 1950s career standards. Let's be honest here, anyone who's a millenial in the workforce knows that getting 1 job for all your life is absurd and impossible. 

On a purely personal level IRL, I got a scientific GED, then a translation and international relations diploma (0% scientific), worked as a translator (linked to diploma!), as a cook, as an HR assistant, as a bartender, as a community manager, then as a customer service gal', and now marketing consultant. Almost none of my RL jobs have ever had anything to do with my diploma and they look like a completely fucked up mishmash of random stuff - and yet, it happened IRL so it would be pretty weird to say it's "unrealistic" ^^'' A /lot/ of Millenials I know, who graduated around the 2008 crisis, have similarly weird and banged up resumees. 

 

Similarly with my character, he's done a lot of different jobs, but all of them were obtained IC'ly through friends, relations, meetings, ... and the longer a character lives, the more likely he is to have had a lot of various occupations. So, it would be nice to not penalize those whose characters have been developed for longer, or to impose standards that are actually unrealistic (the "you learn one thing and do one job forever" thing) :x 

 

Definitely! The problem is it's never explained or justified. I went from forensic science to pathology to studying to become a vet eventually to IT. Granted they are mostly science but we always see variety. 

 

The problem is there's often little thought or any reasoning for it. Portrayal is an after thought. If you can justify it, no problem! Most of the time it is not, which is why we ask before denying and why the queue never seems to move.