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Revise server-related applications & bureaucratic steps


orca112

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This whole process takes up to three weeks, including acquiring shop script request, business license and conducting fire inspection. Not sure where did you come up with 2 to 4 months time frame. Furnishing a property takes up to three days if you have a solid mapper. I think the current system is perfectly fine considering how many request come in to PM.

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On 12/17/2021 at 8:28 PM, Mahitto said:

The inspection is actually something I've heard a lot of people complain about. Even if it's an IC problem, it's an OOC annoyance and it only adds up to the other huge waiting times. You should be able to request the inspection as soon as the interior is done, SFM should be able to do it without you being present and you should be able to operate the business under 'pending fire inspection' while waiting for it.

this is wack

SFM's inspections generally take somewhere between 5-15 minutes of roleplay, from call to conclusion. You can request an inspection to any property (yes, private and commercial) and yes, all the kvetching has made the entire affair as leisurely as can be. You can operate with a pending inspection, as long as you actually try and get it done. If you don't have one? You're warned and get 72 hours worth of leeway to run, open, do whatever you want. Past those 72 hours, you risk getting C&D'd if you're operating without an inspection.

If 7 fields with less than a sentence each upset you, I think that the entrepreneurial side of roleplay isn't for you. You literally write more text in a cigarette-lighting emote than what's required of you. And what's even better? It's all neat and integrated with the UCP in a control panel that detects your properties.

A lot of people complain about roleplay on a roleplay server. Creating roleplay is an OOC annoyance, even if it's painless and can be as fast and as slow as you want it to be. A roleplay server where tons of time is spent driving around aimlessly in expensive cars, erping or grinding out faction roleplay.


the part about being able to inspect your properties without you being present cant be serious as its unconstitutional and kinda dumb

i think the whole comment needs a thread of its own, just to dispel a bunch of misconceptions people have heard second, third and fourth-hand or have last encountered in the faction's infancy

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On 12/17/2021 at 7:28 PM, Mahitto said:

The inspection is actually something I've heard a lot of people complain about. Even if it's an IC problem, it's an OOC annoyance and it only adds up to the other huge waiting times. You should be able to request the inspection as soon as the interior is done, SFM should be able to do it without you being present and you should be able to operate the business under 'pending fire inspection' while waiting for it.

u can operate ur business if ur inspection app is up

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6 hours ago, AlphaBatal said:

A lot of people complain about roleplay on a roleplay server.

I believe a part of the complaint isn't really creating roleplay ^^ It's more that if the inspection can't be done, then roleplay is deleted or made impossible. Good example is a character I know who was managing a couple of places: FM came by both of them in about two weeks to shut the places down because of a lack of fire inspection. Since the owners aren't active for a while (Holidays), now her char's 1) out of a job and 2) Paleto is even less active than before since one of those was in Paleto Bay - not sure the place needed that. 

 

Now I don't know if her experience is very representative of most people's, but if it is, it means FM isn't a force to create RP, but a force that SUPPRESSES RP instead. Either things go right and not much interesting RP is created (a 15 minutes inspection is dull for most people, so is paperwork). If things go wrong, RP is prevented from happening (no business). There aren't many options where the faction actually creates meaningful and cool RP for the owners ^^' 

 

Again, if the above is true, it means the faction and its paperwork are basically paperwork for paperwork's sake. They aren't trying to create RP, they just add another obstacle on the road to RP'ing. Which brings us back to the original topic: there can really, really be a LOT of administrative stuff to bother with, if you want to do something cool :x 

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It literally took me less than three minutes to fill out the fire inspection application. Fire marshals arrived the next day and the whole inspection took 10 minutes while we had some good RP together. You guys have either never owned a business or are complaining about everything for no reason at all. If you can't find 10 minutes of your time to be present for an inspection but can spend hours erping or racing and cop-baiting on your pink-haired lesbian characters then hardcore RP servers are not for you. Same as you should not be able to own a business if you are too lazy to fill out 7 simple fields. It probably took you more time to write a comment here than what it would take you to fill out a fire inspection application.

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1 hour ago, Topinambour said:

Again, if the above is true, it means the faction and its paperwork are basically paperwork for paperwork's sake. They aren't trying to create RP, they just add another obstacle on the road to RP'ing. Which brings us back to the original topic: there can really, really be a LOT of administrative stuff to bother with, if you want to do something cool :x 

 

This, pretty much. I love the idea of adding such small details as having a fire alarm installed, a fire inspection, one for licensing, and other more "random", rp-only stuff, like installing a security alarm, cleaning the place, hiring a plumber etc. But not when it's mandatory with the consequence being your business being shut down. You put it nicely - the point of such system is not to create RP, but rather to supress it. Make it so that people can install alarms and request inspections, but don't have to.

 

Sure, some people get lucky, but not everyone does. The complaints exist for a reason. If it weren't an issue, people wouldn't be complaining about it.

 

The SFM inspection isn't even the biggest culprit, as there are many other hoops that you have to jump through if you want to start a business. None of this has anything to do with being entrepreneurial, as someone said above. Being willing to spend weeks and months writing thousands of words and waiting on responses is not an indicator of literally anything.

 

It's simply a flawed system for our current volume of people and applications and it needs a refresh to make it easier on everyone, not just players wanting a business.

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I'm writing here on behalf of the State Fire Marshals. As mentioned on previous replies to this topic, I'd like to reiterate once more that we are not out to put a halt to anybody's roleplay or create obstacles for anybody. It takes approximately 2-5 minutes to submit a fire inspection request, once your request has been submitted you are free to open your business and operate normally. Once a request has been submitted it is then down to us to reach out to your character's and schedule a visit for the inspection to be carried out, as per the San Andreas Fire Code.

 

I'd like to remind everybody that we are all here to roleplay, this is a roleplay server and if you're unable to take 2-5 minutes out of your playing time to submit a request for something that's legally bound IC then perhaps you shouldn't be owning a business as this plays a very minute part in the operation. Cease and desist orders are a last resort and must be approved by a faction supervisor beforehand, we understand the disruption this may cause and try to find alternatives before carrying such orders out on businesses.

 

I appreciate all the positive replies here, and the appreciation and support for our niche roleplay. If anybody has any questions or queries about anything to do with the faction, please reach out and I'll try my best to answer them.

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I would like to remind people to stay on topic. Giving the example of business creation clearly was a mistake as people derailed the initial post into that direction only, speficially towards SFM. The suggestion is to cover any and all bureaucratic steps to be taken in order to roleplay on the server - excluding the initial server application for obvious reasons whilst the process from initial idea to creation of a business was ment as a singular example out of many.

 

A lot of ideas, if not all, require one or another form of application, request or back and forth with faction management / property management / staff in general. One might say XYZ 'is just a quick 3 minute job'. Glad to hear, but these three minutes add up if you have to repeat them every turn you take and it is no secret the server likes bureaucracy in its existing form as well as trend found in the different ideas and suggestions of adding more bureaucracy (e.g. application for underage characters, further restrictions / involvement of FM regarding PF/CCW). It is thus vital to look into the different steps, applications and requests one can or has to take. Things that can be removed or ammended. Things that are no longer required should be removed and processes should aim towards being more streamlined and simplified to ease the work load on both players filing these applications and requests as well as the player reviewing such.

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Hey 🙂 I just wanted to share how it's been going for me so far, maybe it will give an idea why this topic is opened. Those here are my last 3 months:

 

I passed the flight license by contacting a flight instructor who was listed on the SAAA external forum. Then I went to the lsgov external forum to apply for a business license, and had it. Then I went to apply for a vehicle lease for a helicopter - by the time it was handled, I had enough money to buy one on my own without a lease though. Next I wanted to recruit pilots but I need a business script so I applied for one but it was denied, I needed to have a hangar for the helicopter to get a business garage. So I applied for a hangar space but I was told I needed to "set it as a lease" which I was confused about since I DID apply for a lease. A player told me I need to apply for the hangar as a normal property, so now I'm waiting for the next property round. Then I made a full map of the helipads in the game, and got in touch with PM to see if the ones on roofs could have smart TPs, so I can pick people up there. I was told maybe, and also that because of my request, there is a chance that LFM will make it forbidden / illegal to land on helipads around the city which would make the entire business useless, so I can just close it.

 

I've started around the end of October, today we're almost in 2022 and I still can't recruit anybody or park the heli in a business garage. 😞 Or place an ad icon on the map when I'm open.

 

So far the admins who've handled my stuff were always nice tho. It was a good surprise 🙂 But the crazy amount of steps, sometimes not well documented, can make it very difficult for a new player to open a business, if it's not a bar or something like that. For a bar that is already scripted you can apply for a lease it's easy. For something like I'm doing, it can become very long and very frustrating.

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