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Discussion: Illegal Faction Revamp


Do you want to see the faction tier system on the server instead of the current faction system?  

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2 hours ago, Inked said:

 

To piggyback on this; part of the issue is because of the format in which IFM hands out suppliers their guns. Dropping a supplier their pitiful amount of guns all at once and saying "good luck little buddy, have fun. we'll see you in a month" does nothing because there's neither a benefit or incentive to stretch the weapons out for any length of time or to any larger number of groups/individuals. This is part of a much bigger problem that extends past factions and has to do with the gun economy as a whole.  

 

Dropping factions a predetermined amount of firearms or drugs for being a faction does not help our economies in any way. It actually creates the very problems people have consistently been complaining about for ages now. It's not just the amount that's laughable, it's that it's literally avoiding these in-game economies and markets that exist to just provide factions with something as a reward to make them feel good about being a faction. It's the exact opposite direction and illustrates how actually little this tier system is needed.

 

There are plenty of people in this community who have experience with the gun/drug economy issues and how to resolve them, and have been numerously forthcoming about that. But until IFM starts seeing the players as a resource in wealth of knowledge and experience, they'll remain issues. 

 


Well said.

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While I welcome a revamp and do see some redeeming qualities in this, it's definitely not what the community actually needs. As people have previously mentioned, while there is a slight problem with getting your hands on weapons or drugs as a smaller and newer faction. Those problems are quickly dissipate with a few weeks of development and if not, it usually signals some issues with your group. While I've come around to a tiered system in recent time, I also echo the opinions of a lot of people who have been here for awhile, IFM's had staff shortages in the past, literally nothing's stopping it from happening again only if it happens under the system it seems like it would be 10x worse.

 

As I said originally, I welcome a revamp and actually think it's something that should happen soon. However, this is not it. The servers at a crossroads right now where Illegal RP is starting to really evolve and a lot of cross faction ventures are happening as well. Hopefully if it continues this way it's setting the ground work for a really cool period on GTAW. Anything that staff does want to do has to be subtle and should focus on assisting with that evolution. Not creating a tier system that would artificially disrupt the current development. I think a great way to do that if we are aiming for this kind of tier system would be to focus on rewarding tiers based on existing IC standing and not simply faction longevity. 

 

There are factions who might have been around for awhile but don't really carry the IC influence or power that this system would reward them with. We'd be just reinforcing the existing problems with dinosaur factions holding onto power because they have supplier and don't archive without really any of the IC relevance or power anymore to be in that position. There was a whole period on this server where illegal RP was dead in the county because a weapon supplier faction that was inactive laid claim to the area, only coming about when someone mistakenly setup in the area. Not trying to throw shade or drama at anyone just using that as an example that this has happened on the server in the past and does happen in a lot of other Illegal RP sub genre's as well.

 

In whatever system we choose to use going forward, I agree we should create incentives for some form of longevity. But they should be incentives that provide avenues for more creativity in RP not avenues to get major items like guns and drugs, two things that should be acquired by forming and developing IC relationships. Schemes are a example of what might be good to "upgrade". While anyone should have the ability to apply for a scheme, I think that the number of schemes your faction have could be limited to certain number based on your tier. This way newer factions can focus on developing first a single scheme before eventually expanding to additional schemes as they grow and cement themselves. Eventually reaching an unlimited point at tier 3 when a faction would be arguably a power house able to facilitate dozens of avenues for making money. 

 

I think faction properties are also a good idea, but the way they are laid out here is not. Properties for illegal factions should not be like something you unlock in an RPG. People will simply grind for/focus on getting a "Grow house" or garage like this is GTA Online and I don't see it helping RP at all. Instead I think things like property activity exemptions and some for of furniture incentives with the tiers would be perfect. Things like safe houses, niche RP settings and even major server properties like arenas or studios might only get used every once and awhile but that doesn't make them any less important. Allowing factions to set some of these as "Activity Exempt" would allow people to focus on creating the best quality uses for these properties instead trying to do the best they can without losing them to PM. 

 

In any case, I hope IFM takes basically everything that's been said on this thread into consideration. I think we can all agree the faction system needs change and I think this has been the most insightful and relatively chill discussion we've had on the subject in awhile.

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I think what a lot of you are failing to realise is that the time based tier system is being put in place in order to create some standardisation and remove any possibility of bias or claims of progression through OOC friendship. 

What this means is you won’t see an admin ran faction with 4 members being accepted as official right off the bat. You won’t see the same faction being approved for a whole number of perks while your faction of 9 months has received none. 
 

Whilst maybe not being a PERFECT resolution it’s definitely a step in the right direction and it shouldn’t be bashed.

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5 minutes ago, Goonbag said:

I think what a lot of you are failing to realise is that the time based tier system is being put in place in order to create some standardisation and remove any possibility of bias or claims of progression through OOC friendship. 

What this means is you won’t see an admin ran faction with 4 members being accepted as official right off the bat. You won’t see the same faction being approved for a whole number of perks while your faction of 9 months has received none. 
 

Whilst maybe not being a PERFECT resolution it’s definitely a step in the right direction and it shouldn’t be bashed.

100%

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4 hours ago, DONALDTRUMPFROMFLATS said:

Increase the number of supplier guns by 2x or 3x and give more people supplier, we are roleplaying in America, people shouldn't need to go full on DAY-Z to loot a corpse for a gun.

 

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32 minutes ago, Sufi said:

 

The issue is this isn’t going to help diversify the market. It’s going to mean the same suppliers are just going to sell more weapons to the same factions. The same circles who are already stocked with weapons will just be stocked with more weapons and the same circles who are struggling to find weapons are still going to struggle to find them.

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I believe that longevity alone does not warrant for exceptional roleplay quality no, but it adds sustenance. Just by taking a look at countless factions now, we can see a simple graph, which always goes up in first week or two when it comes to activity and then drops down. Meaning people get fired up for some concept and play it, but burn out not long before month's end. Longevity in this case means, that if people want to portray a specific faction, they should invest more, than just "Oh today? Today I like Crips, tomorrow it will be Bloods." Which I believe is necessary if people want to go official turf claim. Because honestly many people are not even aware on what gang's turf they are treading in the game, as areas seem to be changing gangs every week. So if you wanna get established, invest your time into your roleplay concept.

Edited by Engelbert
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People saying this is too beurocratic/MMOish, and that it should be based on quality of RP:  Sure, but that's what we currently have isn't it?  IFM making judgements on who is worthy.  And it just results in all the claims of bias and favouritism.  Seems like this is an attempt to remove the opinions of IFM people and make it more mechanical and open, removing the subjectiveness.  I suppose the real question is, how does a server measure a faction's quality/contribution to the server without allegations of bias?

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2 hours ago, Paenymion said:

People saying this is too beurocratic/MMOish, and that it should be based on quality of RP:  Sure, but that's what we currently have isn't it?  IFM making judgements on who is worthy.  And it just results in all the claims of bias and favouritism.  Seems like this is an attempt to remove the opinions of IFM people and make it more mechanical and open, removing the subjectiveness.  I suppose the real question is, how does a server measure a faction's quality/contribution to the server without allegations of bias?

 

That's the thing though. There's a big rift between illegal faction roleplayers and IFM based on the fact that what IFM think is good is real subjective. As someone who's been in IFM's position, I know it's hard to make sure everyone's happy with your decisions, you can't appease to everyone. 

 

That's why I and a few other people stress transparency when it gets to IFM stuff. They need to bring more people into the fold, and show us how they determine what is good, and what isn't. There needs to be more dialogue between IFM and illegal roleplayers. 

 

 

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