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Baiting robberies from ads needs a clarification at this point


GambloTwitch

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Posting an advertisement promoting an illegal poker game is the sheer equivalant of publicly announcing via the ad system the address of a house party, which also happens to be a hub for guns and drugs, and then gasping for air in shock when somebody inevitably robs it.

 

I understand why it may require a level of clarification, but in my humble opinion I think it honestly should chalk down to common sense.

 

If criminal A is actively roleplaying above the law and uses legal outlets to promote illicit activities, and then gets upset on an OOC level when criminal B inevitably takes advantage of criminal A's lack of underworld intelligence, then I'm sorry but I think "criminal" A needs to reevaluate his choice of roleplay.

 

I don't think there should be any need for clarification. If you post an ad for an illegal poker game, then you've played (baited) yourself.

 

10 minutes ago, GambloTwitch said:


tNpGkFb.png
 

I believe you haven’t read this.

This guy has been punished and he didn’t use his OWN advertisement to perform a criminal action.

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Pádraig said:

The distinction between this report and that report is that the reporting party posted an advertisement for something perfectly legal. Seeking an apartment in San Andreas should not get you robbed. However, Neesh, you posted an advertisement for an illegal backroom poker game. If you think its poor portrayal for people to rob an illegal backroom game I don't know what to tell you. 

Edited by Lei
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Illegal ads are against the rules.

And the rule saying that you cannot perform robberies/scam through advertisement doesn’t make any exception, because of the fact all the ads have to be legal.

 

Im not here trying to check on who’s the smarter person, but I am only speaking about what rules say.

Edited by GambloTwitch
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8 minutes ago, GambloTwitch said:

Illegal ads are against the rules.

And the rule saying that you cannot perform robberies/scam through advertisement doesn’t make any exception, because of the fact all the ads have to be legal.

 

Im not here trying to check on who’s the smarter person, but I am only speaking about what rules say.

Why mention the robberies at all then when it's criminals doing what criminals would do in real life? Shouldn't the so called "baited" people be reporting illegal ads? not to mention these people who are being robbed are also the ones posting ads... 

 

Tbh though, I withdraw 100k out my bank in real life to play poker with strangers, with the strong possibility that people who like to rob are aware of this all the time.

Edited by iGrime
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11 minutes ago, GambloTwitch said:

Illegal ads are against the rules.

And the rule that you cannot perform robberies/scam through advertisement doesn’t make any exception, because of the fact all the ads have to be legal.

 

The rules only state that you cannot use the ad system to bait victims.

 

Again, in this case, if you're promoting illegal poker games via the ad system, you're baiting yourself; you are the victim. The attacking party didn't break any rules whatsoever according to the rulebook, they took advantage of someone being stupid.

 

I'm not blaming you for the wording of this rule, but I am suggesting that it should be common sense if you're actively roleplaying a criminal. An administrator should immediately be able to recognize what cites an illegal ad and shut down whatever activity is taking place by the ad poster. If they, the administrators themselves cannot distinguish this? Then yeah, that's a bigger problem than somebody not being able to adhere to a decent level of character portrayal.

Edited by Lei
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14 minutes ago, Lei said:

 

The rules only state that you cannot use the ad system to bait victims.

 

Again, in this case, if you're promoting illegal poker games via the ad system, you're baiting yourself; you are the victim. The attacking party didn't break any rules whatsoever according to the rulebook, they took advantage of someone being stupid.

 

I'm not blaming you for the wording of this rule, but I am suggesting that it should be common sense if you're actively roleplaying a criminal. An administrator should immediately be able to recognize what cites an illegal ad and shut down whatever activity is taking place by the ad poster. If they, the administrators themselves cannot distinguish this? Then yeah, that's a problem. 


This might be the first time I can finally understand a point of view. Because it’s not about smartness or character portrayal, it’s about rules.

 

I want an admin to confirm that, if someone posts an illegal ad and for some reason goes through, we can perform a scam or a robbery through that, according to rules. This is all I’d love to hear, but I need it to be stated out loud finally.

 

Thank God someone helped me about illegal poker ads:

 

Pg9nmVE.png

 

You guys shouldn't blame people for their portrayal or admins not checking ads if you don't inform yourselves first.

 

Edited by GambloTwitch
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55 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

I don't get how you can't understand this rule when it's very clear. If you go out of your way to post an advertisement you're taking a risk. Stop blaming the rules because certain people in your faction can't put two and two together when creating an illegal poker game. 

 

That's not how it works. You could claim that about literally everything - posting an ad is taking a risk, responding to an ad is taking a risk, being a taxi driver or calling a taxi driver is taking a risk. If that's how we look at stuff, then everything is a risk you're willing to take. Sure, some unfortunate situations stem from such in real life, but they're the exception, not the rule. If that was ok role-play, on GTA World, it would quickly become the rule - if it were allowed, why would anyone even bother portraying a proper robbery when they could just bait the person to a remote location, with some sort of items/cash on them, and rob them there?

 

 

38 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

You're not allowed to rob people through your advertisement, but if someone is willing to take a risk to actually post an advertisement about a poker game with zero security, they're also accepting the risk of getting robbed. Don't hide behind advertisements to shield your criminal career.

 

The rule states that you're not allowed to rob people that you met through advertisemenets, it doesn't specify whether it's your advertisemenent, the other person's or a third party's. But you are somewhat right - I'd say that unofficial poker games should just be banned from adverts altogethers.

 

From my point of view, the rule is as clear as it can be but if clarification is required, then by all means.

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15 minutes ago, GambloTwitch said:

Thank God someone helped me about illegal poker ads:

 

Pg9nmVE.png

 

You guys shouldn't blame people for their portrayal or admins not checking ads if you don't inform yourselves first.

 

 

I'm not here to biggy pack on a report that has nothing to do with me, but since you brought it up, Padraig has been pretty clear as to why this argument has no substance, citing that they used somebody to gain intel and confirm it was in fact an illegal backroom game. Again, this isn't against the rules.

 

On 12/5/2021 at 3:21 AM, Pádraig said:

Hi there, Martin here. I am replying on behalf of everybody reported.

 

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Casper or Johnathan posted this advertisement. Knowing how low security backroom games are we took the opportunity to send in George as a mole. George gave the group the nod via text that this was a poker game we could take down, so we did. To quote the rules: 

 

It is forbidden to rob anyone when :

- You're using a motorcycle / quad / ATV, these vehicles are fully forbidden for such roleplay unless previously approved by an administrator using /report

- You've baited the victim using an advertisement or the taxi script

- You're not using /rob to force the other party to show their items

 

The group did not post any advertisement to lure potential victims to a spot, this is absolutely clear. Jonathan and Casper took a risk in seeking poker players for an illegal backroom game via a public advertisement system. This is a recipe for disaster.

 

 

To be honest, second-glancing this thread from top-to-bottom, it appears to me that you're using the "rule clarification" agenda to cover up the fact that you're really trying to spite Martorano as a faction and those who robbed you, given the report is the first thing you bring up on the thread.

 

This sub-forum shouldn't be an open social hub to discuss on-going reports, but rather the rules.

 

If you'd like to have a real conversation in regards to rule, then stop using on-going as well as closed reports that undoubtedly require a level of context before you use them as reference. Utilizing an on-going report with no verdict as ammunition holds no weight in a discussion like this until it has been resolved.

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3 minutes ago, Lei said:

 

To be honest, second-glancing this thread from top-to-bottom, it appears to me that you're using the "rule clarification" agenda to cover up the fact that you're really trying to spite Martorano as a faction and those who robbed you, given the report is the first thing you bring up on the thread.

 

Uh... I've never tried to put the personal issues inside this thread, ever. In fact, I did state in the first post the fact it is NOT your fault, but the rule is NOT clear. Also, I wasn't ever robbed by any of you lol

 

But then, someone of Martorano goes:

 

Quote

because certain people in your faction can't put two and two together when creating an illegal poker game. 

 

And then, I had to respond accordingly.

This is all about the rule clarification. I cannot use any other example because it's your faction that performs these kind of robberies over and over again.

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33 minutes ago, GambloTwitch said:


This might be the first time I can finally understand a point of view. Because it’s not about smartness or character portrayal, it’s about rules.

 

I want an admin to confirm that, if someone posts an illegal ad and for some reason goes through, we can perform a scam or a robbery through that, according to rules. This is all I’d love to hear, but I need it to be stated out loud finally.

 

Thank God someone helped me about illegal poker ads:

 

Pg9nmVE.png

 

You guys shouldn't blame people for their portrayal or admins not checking ads if you don't inform yourselves first.

 

 

Whether or not the advertisement was illegal (hint however: it was) the point still stands. Posting an advertisement that is akin to saying "Please, mug me. I have a lot of hard cash that I can get rid of." If such an advertisement was posted in real life you best believe that game would be robbed within two seconds. Posting such an ad is basically bending over and pulling your cheeks back as wide as possible for any would-be robber to mug your game. Why a random person would trust any random stranger to enter their domicile while gambling with tens of thousands of dollars worth of cash is beyond me, this is text-book PokerBot3000 RP.

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Just now, Pádraig said:

 

Whether or not the advertisement was illegal (hint however: it was) the point still stands. Posting an advertisement that is akin to saying "Please, mug me. I have a lot of hard cash that I can get rid of." If such an advertisement was posted in real life you best believe that game would be robbed within two seconds. Posting such an ad is basically bending over and pulling your cheeks back as wide as possible for any would-be robber to mug your game. Why a random person would trust any random stranger to enter their domicile while gambling with tens of thousands of dollars worth of cash is beyond me, this is text-book PokerBot3000 RP.

 

Well, you guys keep on talking about realism and real life, you don't understand there are rules. IRL you can rob on a motorbike too, here you can't.

If we can perform something IRL doesn't mean you can do that in here.

 

Not gonna respond anymore, waiting for an admin to clarify this rule. You guys simply cannot understand at this point and, according to the bolded text, you like to violate the rules on purpose too.

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