Standing Your Ground w/ the gun draw anims, when is it fair to do it?

[shaobadman]

Just now, Nicola said:

The mindset of being held at gunpoint (I say held at gunpoint loosely, most of the time robberies on this server have the robber aiming in all sorts of directions rather than focusing on their victim) therefore you must submit to everything they say is archaic.

i recall there being some contradictory rules about this as well, one says we should act like every area is busy, but it's also excused if someone chooses to rob you in the streets

 

a friend of mine had a gun pointed at him from a car, while he was walking, on a "busy" street in vinewood but because of fear rp rules i believe you have to comply in that scenario and you're at the mercy of those players

[Late]

4 hours ago, pateuvasiliu said:

The server needs to decide whether it wants emote fighting or script fighting to be what rules character decisions. Because the following are both true and it makes no sense.

 

1. If a guy holds me at gunpoint I am supposed to pee my pants and do everything he says.

 

2. If a guy holds me at  gunpoint and STARTS SHOOTING script wise, I am allowed to take out my gun and, with a little bit of luck, I can even win the fight.

 

Point 1 and 2 contradict each other. 

I think it's safe to say once point 2 happens it's kill or be killed at this point and complying with demands is no longer possible. So you shouldn't be CK'd if the aggressor starts shooting first and you simply try to defend yourself. 

[KinnyWynny]

I’d like to comment with a study;

 

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

 

I’ll quote some relevant quotes too;

“Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes, and women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases).  Victims using a gun were no less likely to be injured after taking protective action than victims using other forms of protective action.”

 

Another article;

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense

 

Relevant quote; 

“The latest data show that people use guns for self-defense only rarely. According to a Harvard University analysis of figures from the National Crime Victimization Survey, people defended themselves with a gun in nearly 0.9 percent of crimes from 2007 to 2011.”

tl;dr guns used in self defense by law abiding citizens is extremely rare.

 

Firearms are rarely ever used to stop a crime or for pure self defense. For one it’s incredibly dangerous, pulling a CCW on a convenance store robbery with no training outside of the five hour mandated course in most States is more likely to see you shot or an innocent bystander shot than a criminal to be shot.

 

Also studies show a lot of crimes stopped by bystanders with guns usually end up being off duty police officers, not regular citizens.

 

As for standing your ground, the VAST majority of self defense incidents happen in the home, not outside of it. Castle doctrine rules in a lot of states, and you’re more likely to have a firearm on hand than anywhere else.

 

And I’d like to finish this off with a report from one of the most pro gun states in the US, Florexas.

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/citsafety/20120913_secondchance2.pdf

Edited November 28, 2021 by KinnyWynny

[Vassilios]

1 hour ago, Nicola said:

I've got to agree with this. There's a statistic that chances of survival decrease a crazy amount if your kidnapper/robber removes you from a public area. People are encouraged to scream, run and generally make us much commotion as they can to draw attention to themselves - something I can imagine would land you with a fat ajail if attempted here.

 

The mindset of being held at gunpoint (I say held at gunpoint loosely, most of the time robberies on this server have the robber aiming in all sorts of directions rather than focusing on their victim) therefore you must submit to everything they say is archaic. Admins should actually look into the situation, including what sort of characters the robber and victim are.

Because in real life people would think twice about shooting and getting ten-twenty years in jail. Here they are all cold blooded killers and will just namechange. I definitely agree with you.

[DimitriS]

57 minutes ago, Vassilios said:

Because in real life people would think twice about shooting and getting ten-twenty years in jail. Here they are all cold blooded killers and will just namechange. I definitely agree with you.

/me is a coldblooded killer 
/me is 15 

[Topinambour]

1 hour ago, KinnyWynny said:

I’d like to comment with a study;

https://www.hsph.harvard.ed[...]tes in the US, Florexas.

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/citsafety/20120913_secondchance2.pdf

Huh! That's actually a super interesting read, thanks 🙂 

It's indeed true that anyone who's ever had self defense classes will know that complying is the best thing to do, if you know they're "only" after your phone, wallet, car, ... and not after your life. 

[Martyn]

4 hours ago, radreaper100 said:

I'd rather take my chances if I'm armed as opposed to be kidnapped. Who in their right mind wants to be fucking kidnapped?

 

Kidnapping someone in order to rob them should be considered poor escalation and should be punishable with an a-jail. Criminals already have the luxury of being able to commit a robbery pretty much anywhere on the map. The least we can expect from them is to either do it fast, or to at the very least make sure they're doing it in an area where even in our empty, post apocalyptic ghost city someone won't walk up on them committing the robbery. 

 

 

[pateuvasiliu]

6 hours ago, radreaper100 said:

I'd rather take my chances if I'm armed as opposed to be kidnapped. Who in their right mind wants to be fucking kidnapped?

Oh, absolutely. If you're ordering me into a car you're probably taking me into the desert to kill me. At least in the city, if I draw my gun and fire, I:

 

1. Have a fighting chance

 

2. People will hear the gunshot and I might get help

 

3. The criminal might not want to stick around after shots are fired

 

 

[vato1g]

https://streamable.com/ob3qpp

 

This was deemed by the staff team as being "unrealistic" and "unfair for the person robbing me." Would like some opinions.

[ZaE]

shoot the fuckers if it makes sense to do so

Edited November 28, 2021 by ZaE