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While I personally appreciate the upped level of scrutiny by IFM, I can't help but notice that some community members have it easier then others. I've seen several faction leaders have their factions closed or L&A'd by request and almost immediately get their new projects greenlit and made official. While I understand that these players have demonstrated a wealth of faction leadership experience and that's probably what leads to this decision, I can't help but notice it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of all the people who are truly trying to create something unique or lead something for the first time. 

 

 

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Straying away from the main subject slightly, but I think a couple of others in here have made an important point. Becoming official should not carry any IC rewards. It should merely be an OOC label and carry with it OOC, quality of life rewards. I do not agree that you should have to portray an inferior outfit just because you do not share the same OOC label. There were many times during our stint as unofficial where official factions would start arbitrary beefs with us over nonsense, assumingly because they knew we'd have to take it lying down in order to abide by the rules. This is insane for a "heavy roleplay" community.

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7 hours ago, Wuhtah said:

This thread has been great thus far with the discussion.

 

A warning to those who are trying to derail, please do not go that route as this is constructive criticism and a great way to improve the server - a server in which YOU play on. Try involving yourselves in ways that could bring discussion instead of derailment/toxicity as Chuckles literally brought this to the table to improve / discuss the way things are handled now.

 

Thanks guys.

Just to reiterate Wuhtah's post:

 

This discussion is to bring insight, not to derail. Please keep it on topic.

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In my own opinion I feel as its plenty of groups that open, that show outstanding role-play from their 3rd page to their 25th page, and usually are suggested by Official factions to become official, I feel like that should actually mean something especially in the case their getting suggested by multiple Official Faction Leadership. Some Official Factions not going to say any names are opened and strictly doesn't hold the same amount of role-play and work others put into being Official hard work honestly doesn't pay off and just telling people their denied, doesn't help to make things better for any groups.

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To conclude a few summarizing points before it is interrupted by even more out-of-context posts, I will dive further into the smaller details that very few people under this thread seem to be overlooking, especially those who have somehow managed to compare a business waiting time to faction decisions which bare little to no similarities and shouldn't be compared at all. Like it has been stated probably three of four times, the examples in this case shouldn't be taken literally, they are non-specific in the interest of not singling anybody out. They are entirely categorical, something that we understand, and the principle behind the thread isn't with the factions themselves, it is expansively being used to unargumentatively call out a double standard. Forget the waiting times and pay attention to smaller details in the thread if we are to move forward in addressing the obvious elephant in the room. I would personally prefer a private board for these kind of discussions because they are often derailed by this legal vs illegal see-saw.

 

The status is nothing to be proud of, don't get me wrong. And it's not, it's nothing more than a graduation of influence, for whatever reason. During the group stages, they are put under this microscope, they are offered little to no help to build their factions and are often given the cold shoulder. The rules are written in a way where "bigger factions" (who sometimes are only "bigger" by a week or two, which is why there should be no double standard here) can bully, intimidate and essentially kill off groups. What it looks like from the outside looking in is two sets of rules for one player base and it's a hugely contradictory standard to set and even more hypocritical to enforce. This is not about specific factions, it is about its enforcement and the case of "it's not what you know, it's who you know" dilemma and this idiomatic saying sums it up perfectly. We often find ourselves in on this server and I truly believe it is what has drove the bulk of our illegal roleplayers away.

 

The scrutiny and almost stand-offish attitude is obviously a necessary evil but it should be one-size-fits-all. The point can be argued that it's case by case but claiming that rulings are "arbitrary" are often blankets to defend unmeritable decisions. I feel that every faction should undergo the same review and get the same treatment and that an evaluation should be exactly that, an evaluation. If there is a specific amount of time a faction must remain under assessment then it must be versatile, I have seen the same arbitration rip apart communities in the past. As much as people try and turn these threads into trade-offs and point scoring discussions, I believe we can all raise our issues and concerns without the one-up-manship and posturing contest. At the end of the day we want an environment where we can all play on a level playing field and certain decisions should not be made based on your contacts. It is inference through and through.

 

Executive decisions are a thing, yes, but they should only be a thing when a panel can't come to an agreement; nowhere else. I like the way the current vetting process distinguishes groups from factions but I believe, for little to no reward, the vetting process is swayed. The only thing this system does, literally, is allow for a faction not to be character killed when confronted by bigger groups, it is a blanket and nothing more. It is not an achievement in my book, it is a security blanket and nothing more so again, my problem is not with certain factions being given the thumbs up before others, mine (and others) problem is the way these decisions are influenced and imposed. Open dialogue and transparency is something that brings not only light to situations, but compliance and a willingness to have our views and opinions heard. It is just a shame it has to be done publicly.

 

I feel like currently there is a lot of deceptiveness and white noise and this is what is diluting the faction's forum. It is almost like this side of the server is largely institutionalized and cult-like. Again, I am speaking from a complete neutral position and myself and a handful of others feel as if there's a complete segregation and imbalance. There is a complete imbalanced ratio of scrutiny and it favours those with intermediaries. Again, to reiterate, I don't feel anybody sees jumping from one section of the forums to another is an achievement, but this is generally a universal issue and applies to every other aspect of a faction/group's existence whether it is reviews, scrutiny, punishments, help or even schemes. I won't say it's institutionalized corruption because I don't think it's that but I definitely feel that there is a huge aspect of favouritism involved in any process of our domain.

 

Remove the double standard and you remove the problem completely. People have always been highly critical of this area and for a long time before I joined I heard Chinese whispers but I ignored it until I seen a lot of inconsistencies here and there. 


Create a census for feedback on IFM like you do for the drug schemes and that'll be a step in the right direction.

 

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1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

Like it has been stated probably three of four times, the examples in this case shouldn't be taken literally, they are non-specific in the interest of not singling anybody out.

 

If the examples used for a rhetorical point do not hold up to scrutiny, they're poor examples. You wore numerous ruts in your posts about how you found it unfair your faction waited an additional week and a half compared to another faction. Both factions were less than 2 months old. While the crux for you was that one faction had a few days faster turn-around than the other (and as you've expressed in other threads before you believe other factions are inferior in RP quality to your own), what I took away from the same example was that both factions were "upgraded" in influence level remarkably quickly for a server this large and of this level of RP standard. To think that either faction, in the course of one month, has done anything ICly substantial enough to upgrade them from being a ragtag group of nobodies to being movers and shakers in this city is ludicrous, especially when we have established factions which are going on 1-3 real life years here who are actually veritable movers and shakers.

 

That's not to ignore the point you make later in your post, but to address the issue with that as it arises. Moving on.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

I would personally prefer a private board for these kind of discussions because they are often derailed by this legal vs illegal see-saw.

 

Because only your opinion, and that of a few others, should have any bearing on a server of over 80,000 players? The "legal vs. illegal" see-saw is the backbone of the roleplay in GTA:W. There once was a time in GTA RP's history when all RP was illegal. You know why that sucked? It was essentially just a TDM game with roleplay mixed in. There was no city life, there was no depth, there was nothing interesting in the server, no normal people, and perhaps most terrifyingly of all for the criminal RPers, no legal civilians to pick on and bully to aggrandize themselves with. The legal roleplayers are the ones who are impacted the greatest when illegal factions have bad roleplay standards, or are given more power both ICly or OOCly than they earn. At the end of the day, legal roleplayers are playing this game with a massive disadvantage compared to illegal roleplayers--the real life advantage of being a law-abiding citizen is that you have the backing of law enforcement and the legal system (ideally). On this server? We only have police, no investigative agencies, and most punishments are slaps on the wrists which dramatically warp the IC and OOC meta of criminal risk.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

During the group stages, they are put under this microscope, they are offered little to no help to build their factions and are often given the cold shoulder.

 

 

I fail to see any problems here. We have more factions on this server than quality can even allow for. Nobody on this server gets help to build their concepts whether it's a solo act, a business, or a faction. Considering that the average faction starts on this server with a cast of brand new characters all connected by OOC friendship, OOC agreements, and OOC loyalty, that seems like more than enough "help to build (their) factions." The microscope, frankly, is not enough, because the microscope can only accomplish so much. This is another reason why the upgrade from "group" to "official faction" should take longer than one month. One month is not enough time for a group to show itself and to be inspected to any significant degree.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

 

The rules are written in a way where "bigger factions" (who sometimes are only "bigger" by a week or two, which is why there should be no double standard here) can bully, intimidate and essentially kill off groups.

 

The ability of illegal factions to "bully, intimidate, and essentially kill off groups" is exactly the biggest problem with illegal roleplay on this server. Is it only acceptable, in your view, that criminal factions "bully, intimidate, and essentially kill off" non-criminal roleplayers, but that it's unfair that the same is done to your faction by those who have been around longer and have done more on the server to generate influence? Across your discussions on this forum, this seems to have come up multiple times in various different conversations, and it seems that you don't enjoy people lording over your roleplay, but that you don't seem to hold yourself against that standard. And I think that you're not alone in this, a lot of people roleplaying criminal characters are seeking a power fantasy and a lot of them get frustrated when they cannot exert that power fantasy as freely as they'd like.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

What it looks like from the outside looking in is two sets of rules for one player base and it's a hugely contradictory standard to set and even more hypocritical to enforce.

 

I'm with you there, but not for the reason you're saying. There are definitely different approaches on this server to enforcing the rules on some players than there are on other players. It's just the nature of the beast. Admins are few, imperfect, and have only so much information and time. Players are many, imperfect, and have so many ways to do good or do badly and so many ways for either to be obfuscated.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

This is not about specific factions, it is about its enforcement and the case of "it's not what you know, it's who you know" dilemma and this idiomatic saying sums it up perfectly. We often find ourselves in on this server and I truly believe it is what has drove the bulk of our illegal roleplayers away.

 

I don't believe anyone legitimately believes that the "bulk of illegal roleplayers" have been driven off the server. The server is still by a significant margin majority illegal roleplay and all it takes is one lazy scroll of a mouse wheel down the unofficial and official factions page to see that. We've lost players from the server but not because of any nefarious double-standard, or because one faction gets official in 1 month 1 week and another got it in 1 month 2 weeks. We're losing players because summer is over and people are going back to school and work. We're losing players because after a year and a half of lockdown limiting people's real life opportunities, people are having to resume their old lives with increasing frequency. We're losing players because some people have been on this server for years and their lives outside the keyboard are progressing beyond the point that they can keep up with the rather high demands of GTA:W. This is the normal, systematic ebb and flow of any hobby gaming activity.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

The scrutiny and almost stand-offish attitude is obviously a necessary evil

 

I don't think stand-offish attitudes are a necessary evil and people should definitely be nicer to each other, but there is an issue of people's motivations. I've seen many people on this server pretend to be polite (sometimes to the point of cloying mockery, like so often in player reports threads) but in reality they're pushing a self-interested, hostile, or otherwise malicious agenda beneath the airs of being "concerned players." This is perhaps what causes more stand-offish attitudes than anything else.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

but it should be one-size-fits-all. The point can be argued that it's case by case but claiming that rulings are "arbitrary" are often blankets to defend unmeritable decisions. I feel that every faction should undergo the same review and get the same treatment and that an evaluation should be exactly that, an evaluation. If there is a specific amount of time a faction must remain under assessment then it must be versatile, I have seen the same arbitration rip apart communities in the past. As much as people try and turn these threads into trade-offs and point scoring discussions, I believe we can all raise our issues and concerns without the one-up-manship and posturing contest. At the end of the day we want an environment where we can all play on a level playing field and certain decisions should not be made based on your contacts. It is inference through and through.

 

Here is where I agree with you again. We're all here to play a game and have fun, and we should be able to discuss things on an even keel with in mind that all of us are working to the same objective. That being said, these conversations rarely are happening in a vacuum. There's usually significant context for all the people coming into the conversation. Sometimes the context is shared and the views about the same context are different. Sometimes people are bringing different contexts, knowingly or unknowingly, and that forms the basis of contention. Everyone has different opinions, and it's easy for people to misinterpret the opinions and rationale behind them, just as it is easy for a person to misrepresent the motivation for the opinions they express. 

 

But here's the most important thing regarding time tables and keeping things as fair as possible: things aren't fair, at all, in GTA:W. Some people log on the server and handle all their interactions with this community through in-game roleplay. Some people log onto this server with a dozen of their best online friends who they've gamed with for years and all start characters together. Some people roleplay whatever situation they have in front of them however it happens. Some people refuse to engage in a roleplay until they've messaged all their buddies and faction members on Discord to get online immediately and back them up so they don't look weak alone. Some people metagame and use OOC connections consistently and never get caught and build influential and powerful characters/factions from that foundation. Some people metagame once and piss off the wrong person and get reported/punished.

 

And then? Everyone is starting their factions on their own time. The admins are real people who have real lives outside of the game. And even in the game, they have their own roleplay and their own fun to look after. There is a lot of work that goes into scrutinizing factions and it's a drama shit show which I don't wish on anyone. IFM has the obnoxious job of placating literally hundreds of players, many of whom gladly bend and warp the rules to their own advantage whenever they get the chance, in complex IC and OOC hierarchies. Just in the matter of going from unofficial to official, you cannot expect that the admins drop everything to handle timelines to the T. To me, it seems perfectly normal in a volunteer position like a GTA:W admin that they would handle one faction in 5 weeks and one faction in 6 weeks. That delta is understandable and it behooves you to be more patient, understanding, and appreciative. Instead of worrying about who gets their statuses when, focus first and foremost on your own roleplay and allow other things to be secondary.

 

I'll stop quoting you piecemeal here because the rest of your post is about tying your argument towards the larger issue of double-standards and a lack of transparency that goes beyond merely timelines. That's a fair point, and it's something that underpins this entire community. For IFM it's a balancing act of how transparent can they be before they are just giving up more of an advantage to the players who abuse systems to their own gain. How transparent can they be until they're spending all this extra time and energy (which is far from infinite) on publishing swathes of information and debating with players over each and every decision they make?

 

As someone who has personally handled IFM duties on large roleplay servers, I can tell you that factions have many habits of obfuscating information, abusing OOC advantages, and more. For an example, even with an admin in your faction's Discord channel to watch over you for metagaming, there's nothing preventing these players from having a second Discord server or group chat for their faction to communicate freely in. For every line of text that the admins can observe from a faction within the game and on their official Discord, there are many more lines that have been shared in private DMs which the admins cannot see. In the movie Casino, they point out that you need to anticipate that the people you hire to steal for you will also steal for themselves. In GTA RP, you need to expect that the people who take great joy and pleasure in living out organized criminal fantasies and who spend thousands of hours roleplaying people who defy and cheat authority will also OOCly be willing to break rules, hide their misdoings, and lie to the authorities. 

 

Almost any  decision the IFM makes will be controversial to some. Any decision they don't make will be controversial to some. If they make a faction official or give them supplier positions, there will be some people who have seen this faction misbehave who will be displeased, and obviously those who are involved in the faction as members or allies will be pleased. If they punish a faction, the opposite effect will happen. If they take a stricter stance, some people will be furious and write posts that they're being underappreciated for their roleplay and that they're being bottlenecked while other players will breathe a collective sigh of relief that "finally something is being done." 

 

Sometimes people will approach the IFM and say "I know that XYZ faction is breaking the rules" but they don't have the evidence to back it up because, well, it's really hard to collect comprehensive evidence of complicated rule breaks unless you're an insider. So what does the IFM do? They do their own investigation, but unless they manage to find someone making a mistake, they can't do a thing about it. So it continues, all their guidelines, their equal standards, and various other measures tie their hands and allow the server to remain actually imbalanced even though it should seem everything is being handled fairly and evenly.

 

There are always winners and losers to every single decision, but IFM will rather consistently be the loser. They're the ones who have to put in all the extra time to satisfy the never-ending expectations. And whenever people get upset for a decision they make, they need to spend even more time discussing among themselves, with management, with players, and the process becomes a cyclical loop.

 

And at the end of the day, at the core of it, it's up to every single player to be responsible for their own RP experience and not look to outside assistance. I've enjoyed my roleplay on GTA:W for 2 years without any official faction or group. My character has gone through periods of large followings, and never once did I feel I needed to go out and make a faction to encapsulate this. The current faction system we have is an outdated dinosaur created by a bunch of teenagers like 15 years ago who were copying shit they barely understood. Like nearly every other facet of GTA RP, it's just been copied over and over and over again for years across various communities. The fact that it has gone this far has shaped our RP communities and all these growing pains we have now are the result of people running into the fact that factions are stupid as hell and factions do not facilitate good community-wide roleplay. People just cling to them because it's all they've ever known and they're afraid of losing that structure.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Ink said:

 

If the examples used for a rhetorical point do not hold up to scrutiny, they're poor examples. You wore numerous ruts in your posts about how you found it unfair your faction waited an additional week and a half compared to another faction. Both factions were less than 2 months old. While the crux for you was that one faction had a few days faster turn-around than the other (and as you've expressed in other threads before you believe other factions are inferior in RP quality to your own), what I took away from the same example was that both factions were "upgraded" in influence level remarkably quickly for a server this large and of this level of RP standard. To think that either faction, in the course of one month, has done anything ICly substantial enough to upgrade them from being a ragtag group of nobodies to being movers and shakers in this city is ludicrous, especially when we have established factions which are going on 1-3 real life years here who are actually veritable movers and shakers.

 

That's not to ignore the point you make later in your post, but to address the issue with that as it arises. Moving on.

 

If I were to use any other example other than my own, the thread would be derailed in its entirety for targeting specific factions, which I am opposed to doing. Contrary to popular belief, excessive and added weeks in the "group stages" are detrimental to a faction's existence. The difference between 4 weeks and 6 weeks has the potential to be night and day. To you it might be "a few days" but to them it is the difference between having their factions character killed and not having them character killed. This is more specific to gangs who feud with rival gangs. The way the rules are currently, a 4 week faction can be killed off by a 6-7 week faction specifically for that reason, because they are a faction and vice versa a 6-7 week unofficial faction can be killed off by a 4 week official faction. This is the truth of the matter. And by "influence" I mean nothing more than OOC influence, not IC. I don't think the jump should change anything, but it does. This was actually a conversation I had with a gang's leader as recently as today.

 

If the system is to remain superficial then remove that rule completely. Because factions play on it more than they should.

 

19 hours ago, Ink said:

 

 

Because only your opinion, and that of a few others, should have any bearing on a server of over 80,000 players? The "legal vs. illegal" see-saw is the backbone of the roleplay in GTA:W. There once was a time in GTA RP's history when all RP was illegal. You know why that sucked? It was essentially just a TDM game with roleplay mixed in. There was no city life, there was no depth, there was nothing interesting in the server, no normal people, and perhaps most terrifyingly of all for the criminal RPers, no legal civilians to pick on and bully to aggrandize themselves with. The legal roleplayers are the ones who are impacted the greatest when illegal factions have bad roleplay standards, or are given more power both ICly or OOCly than they earn. At the end of the day, legal roleplayers are playing this game with a massive disadvantage compared to illegal roleplayers--the real life advantage of being a law-abiding citizen is that you have the backing of law enforcement and the legal system (ideally). On this server? We only have police, no investigative agencies, and most punishments are slaps on the wrists which dramatically warp the IC and OOC meta of criminal risk.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly. If anything I believe the entire legal vs illegal spectacle serves more as a detriment than it does a positive and a confined space where people experienced in the genre have the potential to unitedly address their concerns and have their concerns heard without the inference of people who don't understand it because they haven't been part of it. The same way the aforementioned illegal roleplayers wouldn't want to intrude in legal politics because they are again, inexperienced. But like I previously mentioned a plethora of times, this thread shouldn't be used as a platform to go back and forth and shouldn't be used as a playground for the tit-for-that arguments that have become the norm when these discussions become public. This is exactly what I didn't want happening to the thread because it leads to a different discussion entirely. We need to stick to the issue at hand.

 

19 hours ago, Ink said:

 

 

 

I fail to see any problems here. We have more factions on this server than quality can even allow for. Nobody on this server gets help to build their concepts whether it's a solo act, a business, or a faction. Considering that the average faction starts on this server with a cast of brand new characters all connected by OOC friendship, OOC agreements, and OOC loyalty, that seems like more than enough "help to build (their) factions." The microscope, frankly, is not enough, because the microscope can only accomplish so much. This is another reason why the upgrade from "group" to "official faction" should take longer than one month. One month is not enough time for a group to show itself and to be inspected to any significant degree.

 

Again, from the outside looking in it's hard to see what's not in front of you. But if the server is to promote longevity, continuation and durability then they should encouraged, advised and assisted. This has been the case on most other communities and the assistance generally improves not only the standard, but the receptiveness of the factions in question and their ability to improve. If you are left with no resources, no answers and no help, is it really any wonder people rely on these "OOC friendships, OOC agreements and OOC loyalties"? I don't think it should take longer at all because it gives you no benefit IC, there is no reward other than a moved thread and increased scrutiny and the ability not to be character killed by factions who are realistically in the same standing as you but have made it through the gate quicker. It's not about how quick somebody got what. It's about why somebody got what quicker. The devil is in the details here.

 

19 hours ago, Ink said:

 

 

The ability of illegal factions to "bully, intimidate, and essentially kill off groups" is exactly the biggest problem with illegal roleplay on this server. Is it only acceptable, in your view, that criminal factions "bully, intimidate, and essentially kill off" non-criminal roleplayers, but that it's unfair that the same is done to your faction by those who have been around longer and have done more on the server to generate influence? Across your discussions on this forum, this seems to have come up multiple times in various different conversations, and it seems that you don't enjoy people lording over your roleplay, but that you don't seem to hold yourself against that standard. And I think that you're not alone in this, a lot of people roleplaying criminal characters are seeking a power fantasy and a lot of them get frustrated when they cannot exert that power fantasy as freely as they'd like.

 

Nobody has done this to my faction. If anything I am advocating for more influence to the bigger factions like Conti, Martorano, Mongols, Vagos, Los Des. These are the powerhouses of the server but the most of them are no better off than anyone else. If anything, my faction puts emphasis on having virtually no influence. We still pay the bigger factions protection money despite being official ourselves which again emphasizes the point that the "achievement" is pointless. I don't know what discussion you're talking about here but I have been vocal about the fact that we roleplay a domestic level organization with virtually no influence beyond that level. But feel free to correct me on that. There's a difference between people lording over your roleplay OOC and people lording over your roleplay IC. I think that's where people can't make the separation. I think that's a relatively baseless generalization that say criminal roleplayers have a power fantasy. I also deny the claim that criminals want to "bully, intimidate and kill off" non-criminal roleplayers.

 

19 hours ago, Ink said:

 

 

I'm with you there, but not for the reason you're saying. There are definitely different approaches on this server to enforcing the rules on some players than there are on other players. It's just the nature of the beast. Admins are few, imperfect, and have only so much information and time. Players are many, imperfect, and have so many ways to do good or do badly and so many ways for either to be obfuscated.

 

 

I don't believe anyone legitimately believes that the "bulk of illegal roleplayers" have been driven off the server. The server is still by a significant margin majority illegal roleplay and all it takes is one lazy scroll of a mouse wheel down the unofficial and official factions page to see that. We've lost players from the server but not because of any nefarious double-standard, or because one faction gets official in 1 month 1 week and another got it in 1 month 2 weeks. We're losing players because summer is over and people are going back to school and work. We're losing players because after a year and a half of lockdown limiting people's real life opportunities, people are having to resume their old lives with increasing frequency. We're losing players because some people have been on this server for years and their lives outside the keyboard are progressing beyond the point that they can keep up with the rather high demands of GTA:W. This is the normal, systematic ebb and flow of any hobby gaming activity.

 

I wasn't saying this for the sake of saying it, I know for a fact that the current situation is driving people away and they're currently housed here because there's no alternative. I think this is one of the many reasons why it's allowed to become complacent: because there is no alternative. But what happens when there is one? While all of the above may play a factor you also have to be realistic, openminded and nonbiased and realize that this is also one of the reasons why. As aforementioned, it's not about the time and dates, it's that there's contrasting principles and duplicity in the syllabus. If a faction ticks all the boxes then there's no harm and no foul but if another faction also ticks the boxes then they should be given the same treatment. This is not about my faction. This is about other factions who (I believe) are given the cold shoulder because they have no inside man. This is the moral of the story.

 

I agree with a lot of the points you brought up but I don't like the fact that it's once again becoming a legal vs illegal thread like I've tried to stir clear of. I understand that IFM have to be the bad guy. Win, lose or draw; they will remain the bad guy but this isn't exactly an open-and-closed issue. You like many others have stated it's been a known issue for the longest of time but until an issue is addressed it will never be rectified or forgotten and the purpose of this thread was to gage the perspective of the rest of the illegal roleplayers. There's plenty who agree and some who disagree but at the end of the day it's creating a discussion and it's shedding light on a situation that's been in the dark for a prolonged period of time.

 

You remove the time, the date and the reason from the equation and the issue at hand remains the same, it's a quota system with an improper quota. I don't think the system's failed, I think the way it's enforced is failed and it's spilling into the server itself because of the many inconsistencies that comes along with it. People will be dissatisfied with most decisions and there will never be pleasing everyone, but if everyone is given the same time of day and treated the same then there will be no reason to cry wolf. Having a catch-as-you-can system always leaves you susceptible to dropping the ball and our concerns can't just be waved off as "there's no pleasing everyone." Personally I create these topics to inspire inclusion, dialogue and engagement and more often that I don't play devil's advocate. But understand that I am saying what a lot of other people are thinking.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ink said:

The current faction system we have is an outdated dinosaur created by a bunch of teenagers like 15 years ago who were copying shit they barely understood. Like nearly every other facet of GTA RP, it's just been copied over and over and over again for years across various communities. The fact that it has gone this far has shaped our RP communities and all these growing pains we have now are the result of people running into the fact that factions are stupid as hell and factions do not facilitate good community-wide roleplay. People just cling to them because it's all they've ever known and they're afraid of losing that structure.

There's a hell of a lot of interesting stuff to unravel in what you said, but this last part seems to be a point that is often overlooked...

Several of the difficulties we have faced, or are facing, stems from stuff that was copy-pasted from SAMP, without wondering what the point of the rule/system is, and how it would serve RP or encourage it :x And I'm rather certain a lot of ideas and systems are overlooked because of this. 

 

It would be like keeping the awkward controls of old NES controllers on the PS5, because it's "how we did it before". At some point, thinking about the game and how a redesign can improve it is probably the best idea.

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