Revisit punishment severity

[Tickle]

More so, we should address the wild variety between punishment's handed down. 30 minute ajails versus warnings versus multiple day bans. They vary a lot by what admin picks it and the temperament. I don't know if theirs a solid set of rules for what punishment' to give over X.  There is a bit too much variety in my opinion and if you get unlucky on a bad day with an admin who doesn't take no shit you might get a really rough punishment but if you get someone in a good mood he'll be like "hey man heres your warning man.".

 

Should be more consistent because it builds resentment from people who get a blemish on their record over a trivial matter whilst people who do heinous things get away with it. There is something about your one moment of weakness after playing for like a whole day being taken against you because someone has a vendetta that's really annoying. But Joe Shmoe over here might go over to Davis and loot like 15 guns and maybe get an ajail for 30 minutes if he's caught and he doesn't care cause he's here to fuck around anyway. So I'm somewhat opposed to "being harsher" I say more so being harsher on those who do egregiously obvious things in bad faith and do them religiously over and over and have no concept of how to change. It's really not that hard NOT to break the rules. The occasional warning for something silly you did or the outburst you had cause you got too invested in a situation is okay, but if someone is having a history of 5 ajails over RUN DEM POCKETS FOO and p2w stuff it's just not cool imo.

 

But truthfully I don't believe this is as much of an issue as is being made. Seen friends of been get permabanned after repeat offences. It's not like it doesn't happen these admins work their asses off with the spam of stuff that happens in game. I think their are good systems in place to an extent but there is room for improvement. There are admins that I've been smash the gavel hard like @Igloo who do permeant bans and lay the law down hard. They do happen and they are semi-frequent.

 

But what I would add in retort to this is having even a warning on your account can affect a lot. It can affect you getting positions in factions, it can affect you getting a house, a property. The way it affects you is less seen in the immediate practical terms but more in the accumulative influence it has on how admins handle you and the things you are permitted to do. If you wish to do anything beyond just melting away in the Davis graveyard or going to clubs you will see refusals of many things. They literally ask for your UCP when you apply for a PF, when you apply for police etc. It does limit you and it does have an effect. It just so happens that a lot of the "usual suspects" really couldn't care. I have been saying recently and I will reiterate this RPQM as a concept has to be revved up a notch and more relevant in game. We need to address the plethora of really mediocre criminal RPers who gives the amazing ones a bad name. A lot of the punishments are on these people. It's not exactly blonde white female #21 at La Spada causing the problem (although sometimes!)

[Steezers]

Apparently ur not even allowed to make a breakin request if uve had recent admin punishment / a bad record

[Tickle]

Just now, Steezers said:

Apparently ur not even allowed to make a breakin request if uve had recent admin punishment / a bad record

 

This is what I'm alluding to it affects you in more ways then people are realizing.

[hipsxn]

31 minutes ago, honey. said:

I think punishments are too lenient. I've been part of the problem before because otherwise in a sea of leniency, I am 'too harsh'. This change has to come from the top of the server in order for those below to be comfortable being able to 'administrate' how this server needs.

 

That being said, usually when I've banned someone, it's resulted in threats, spam, complaints, reports. It's not fun. Permanent bans should be permanent. In order for them to be permanent, the punishment scale has to change. Normalize bans for a week, normalize bans for 3 months. Normalize long as shit ajails. 15 minutes in a cement box after ruining the experience of others does next to nothing, the bigger punishment of that is actually having it on your record.

 

[ In case of an investigation by any federal entity or similar (staff mgmt), I do not have any involvement with this group or with the people in it, I do not know how I am here, probably added by a third party, I do not support any actions by the members of this group. ]

 

[ThatDutchPerson]

17 minutes ago, Keane said:

-snip-

 

6 minutes ago, Brian3898 said:

-snip-

 

These things honestly sounds like there is some kind of culture of fear running within the team coming from above (Management). I was part of this problem, given I had my fair share of staff reports aswell. Most of them were completely useless, I can see that now, but thats in the past now. Point is I can see where these replies are coming from; players get punished and in the heat of the moment file a staff report to get out of their punishment (which is against the rules). We however never get told what happens behind the scenes, your replies make clear that something severe happens behind the scenes.

 

Maybe staff reports should be handled in a different way? Perhaps before fully handling it, someone in Management decides wether its even worth to handle (much like an appelate court operates). If staff reports are weeded out that are very obviously made in a frivolous way and the punished person has evidence against him/her beyond reasonable doubt, then staff reports would be way less intimidating and cause less burnouts; as less will be actually be handled. Kicks shouldn't apply to a staff report, and ajails shorter than 60 minutes shouldn't be handled in staff reports. Instead, apply to expunge these as these are minor punishments.

 

People also file staff reports to have certain admin entries in their record expunged. Perhaps split these, and make a seperate forum section for expungement requests? These would be handled by the punishing admin and a (not all) member of Management. Strict requirements for expungement should apply.

 

These are just a few ideas that come to mind when responding to your arguements about staff reports when punishing harshly. I believe if we tackle the staff reports procedure and overhaul it, esspecially in the way described above, it could fix this culture of fear of staff reports burning people out. Will people be mad? Yes, people will be mad when their staff report ''gets denied''. But what do you expect when you are on video metagaming?

[Steezers]

4 minutes ago, Tickle said:

 

This is what I'm alluding to it affects you in more ways then people are realizing.

Yh and its gay asf, like how vehicle requests get denied cos of ur admin record

imagine bro, you can’t get a lawnmower because you got ajailed 2 months ago

[Zani]

5 minutes ago, Steezers said:

Apparently ur not even allowed to make a breakin request if uve had recent admin punishment / a bad record

 

Usually this is from admin discretion. If you're seen to project poor roleplay during robberies or break ins, you may be informed by an administrator that you'll be barred from that roleplay for a certain amount of time. Though, I have never seen people rejected simply because they have a record.

[Steezers]

1 minute ago, Zani said:

 

Usually this is from admin discretion. If you're seen to project poor roleplay during robberies or break ins, you may be informed by an administrator that you'll be barred from that roleplay for a certain amount of time. Though, I have never seen people rejected simply because they have a record.

what about car requests tho, or house requests, ive seen ppl get their veh requests denied cos they got an admin record

can’t even have a lawnmower or a dune buggy or w/e cos they got a record

[Zani]

1 minute ago, Steezers said:

what about car requests tho, or house requests, ive seen ppl get their veh requests denied cos they got an admin record

can’t even have a lawnmower or a dune buggy or w/e cos they got a record

 

You may have tried this, but I would reach out to Property Management because this is their 'expertise.' I personally am not aware of what goes on within the subgroup.

[Chuckles]

I feel that in certain instances punishments are too lenient on repeat offenders but on other instances, enforcement and the threat of punishment is immoderate and completely excessive. I find that a lot of administrators are imprudent in their decisions and if punishments are too become more severe, then we will be in the exact same situation as we are now but with more bans. This shouldn't even be discussed until the problem within the administrative team is addressed itself and the application of variability is implemented.

 

People repeat their offense because they do not learn from their mistake. Help them learn from their mistake instead of locking them in a cupboard with no food, water of explanation. Education and awareness has the potential to deescalate a lot of these problems but most of the time when someone is punished, the problem's locked and the key's thrown away with no acknowledgement, admission or enlightenment -- it's considered "open and closed." The word adequately is acceptable to one but unacceptable to another, this is why it is usually contested. If I am not satisfied with the outcome of a report, an an application or a decision, I will contest it to seek resolution. Just because a player has a green name doesn't mean their decisions are scrupulous. Simply put, I am not comfortable in the level of enforcement to be comfortable with harsher implications until there is clear progress within the staff team itself. If they can't come to an agreement between themselves then the players have the right to be leery.

 

It takes in excess of 2-3 weeks to have a report concluded. It takes 2-3 weeks to have an application concluded, regardless of genre. It would take 2-3 weeks to have these aforementioned bans concluded. Complacency and inconsistency is what is contributing to the players' lack of faith in the institution. The problem players would have is not with "harsher punishments" it's who and what would consider them harsh. I understand that there is too many habitual offenders getting off light, but the minority would suffer more from this than what known infringers would. If you give administrators one reason to ban, no matter how big or small the reason is, they will ban people and we'll be revisiting this topic months down the line but with the shoe on the other foot. The foremost focus before introducing something like this should be to fix the shrewdness and complacency, this "we're doing this by choice, we'll handle it when we handle it" attitude.

 

I've sometimes looked at punishments and warnings being handed out in reports because it's intriguing to read through. The player report section helps the community gauge the perspective of not just players but staff members too and it offers us a certain transparency. A player's report is made public and I know nobody wants to end up there willingly for fear of ridicule, embarrassment and punishment. If this was the case for staff reports too then it'd help us, the community, see these situations with a fresh perspective and inside view and I think it'd directly correlate to the aforementioned: staff would be more careful in their rulings and judgments for fear of ridicule, embarrassment and even punishment. It has the potential to be a double edged sword and it's something I would welcome with open arms.

 

If you want severe punishments, start by addressing the elephant in the room: how these punishments are determined. Whilst I have seen my fair share of lenient punishments, I have also seen an even fairer share of questionable decisions.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Chuckles