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Context and Player Reports


Chuckles

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55 minutes ago, Giacobbe said:

 

 

I can't agree with either of you here. Granted certain rules are applicable regardless of the scenario, i.e. think metagaming, but various other rules can be interpreted differently given the context of the situation. More often than not this context revolves around the character's faction affiliation, which is where prior knowledge of illegal roleplay or the specific subgenre of illegal roleplay is valuable.

 

Take the following two scenarios and try apply the rules in exactly the same manner:

  • Scenario 1: a group of thugs mug a law-abiding teenager. The teenager is uncooperative, so they beat him up for his possessions and leave him for dead on the side of the street. The teenager is found by a passer-by and is taken to hospital, where he eventually makes a recovery. The law-abiding teenager then gathers a group of friends, locates the parties involved, and kills them as an act of revenge.
  • Scenario 2: a group of thugs mug a captain from a notorious LCN outfit. The mobster is uncooperative, so they beat him up for his possessions and leave him for dead on the side of the street. The mobster is found by a passer-by and is taken to hospital, where he eventually makes a recovery. The captain sends out a hit-squad to retaliate against the thugs. The hit-squad locates the parties involved and executes them as an act of revenge.

Are you able to treat both scenarios with equal merit? If not, why? Would scenario 1 be classed as deathmatch and poor escalation? If yes, why wouldn't scenario 2 be treated as so? In scenario 2, what significance does the victim's stature within the mob play? Would the outcome of scenario 2 be any different if the victim was only an associate and not an inducted member? Why?

 

Would someone with no prior experience or knowledge of illegal roleplay - or more specifically the LCN subgenre - be able to confidently answer all of those questions? If no, then the outcome of any decision making involved in the report player process would not be as educated as someone who can confidently answer yes.


I believe you need to split between: breaking the rules and poor character portrayal. Which are two different things and, the second one, applies to this specified example.

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1 hour ago, Giacobbe said:

 

 

I can't agree with either of you here. Granted certain rules are applicable regardless of the scenario, i.e. think metagaming, but various other rules can be interpreted differently given the context of the situation. More often than not this context revolves around the character's faction affiliation, which is where prior knowledge of illegal roleplay or the specific subgenre of illegal roleplay is valuable.

 

Take the following two scenarios and try apply the rules in exactly the same manner:

  • Scenario 1: a group of thugs mug a law-abiding teenager. The teenager is uncooperative, so they beat him up for his possessions and leave him for dead on the side of the street. The teenager is found by a passer-by and is taken to hospital, where he eventually makes a recovery. The law-abiding teenager then gathers a group of friends, locates the parties involved, and kills them as an act of revenge.
  • Scenario 2: a group of thugs mug a captain from a notorious LCN outfit. The mobster is uncooperative, so they beat him up for his possessions and leave him for dead on the side of the street. The mobster is found by a passer-by and is taken to hospital, where he eventually makes a recovery. The captain sends out a hit-squad to retaliate against the thugs. The hit-squad locates the parties involved and executes them as an act of revenge.

Are you able to treat both scenarios with equal merit? If not, why? Would scenario 1 be classed as deathmatch and poor escalation? If yes, why wouldn't scenario 2 be treated as so? In scenario 2, what significance does the victim's stature within the mob play? Would the outcome of scenario 2 be any different if the victim was only an associate and not an inducted member? Why?

 

Would someone with no prior experience or knowledge of illegal roleplay - or more specifically the LCN subgenre - be able to confidently answer all of those questions? If no, then the outcome of any decision making involved in the report player process would not be as educated as someone who can confidently answer yes.

To address the first scenario, unrealistic for a teen to gather some friends and kill the muggers. Law abiding or not, unless said teen is in a gang or friends with someone in a gang...won't happen most likely. While it cannot be judged as rpk, poor escalation absolutely. If you gather some friends and beat them up, that is quite more probable in real life. And happens. Now second scenario goes without question, depending on who gets mugged, regarding status in LCN, answer for such act is always bound to come, but again depends on what member of what ranking was mugged. But this also depends on who the robbers were. This is bit of more complex matter. But whether LCN folks decide to execute said muggers or not, depends on various factors. If it was someone close to the boss for instance, they may even opt for a CK. In such case, it's more of matter of preserving face.

 

TL;DR.

1st scenario is unrealistic and it will be considered as deathmatching and poor escalation.

2nd scenario is completely pausible.

Edited by Engelbert
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4 hours ago, GambloTwitch said:


I believe you need to split between: breaking the rules and poor character portrayal. Which are two different things and, the second one, applies to this specified example.

 

I don't want to deviate from the subject at hand here, but I'm not sure I'm following you. We're playing on what's dubbed as a heavy roleplay server. If 'poor character portrayal' isn't a complete contradiction of the server's core values and a direct breach of the ruleset we abide by then I haven't got a clue what is.

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1 hour ago, Giacobbe said:

 

I don't want to deviate from the subject at hand here, but I'm not sure I'm following you. We're playing on what's dubbed as a heavy roleplay server. If 'poor character portrayal' isn't a complete contradiction of the server's core values and a direct breach of the ruleset we abide by then I haven't got a clue what is.


If we have to ban and punish all the players who don’t portray a realistic character through their action, well, I believe we will have a 50 players online server.

Edited by GambloTwitch
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22 hours ago, Chuckles said:

1) Do you think administrators should have experience in the genre before handling a report?

 

2) Do you feel that IFM are overwhelmed and understaffed?

 

3) How can we fix this?

1: 
Definitely, but, it'll shorten the admins workforce. As there's a lot of people who haven't RPed x, a lot of people who haven't RPed y. Maybe we could get a some sort of team in where they could help individual admins in handling reports that require a knowledge of a certain genre, I don't know. We can brainstorm the idea here. 
2: 
Yeah, a lot of work is being put on the IFM as of right now.
3: 
Allow selected support members to have some kind of role into IFM? More people doing staff work, etc. (I said support because they'd have to look at sensitive information, which a non-staff player can't do).

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18 hours ago, GambloTwitch said:


If we have to ban and punish all the players who don’t portray a realistic character through their action, well, I believe we will have a 50 players online server.

Not every "punishment" has to be any of the aforementioned. Education and acknowledgement is a much more effective penalty when it comes to changing a culture. There are too much borderline cases. People read things letter for letter: what they read out is right but how they interpret things are wrong. And context is the most important factor in understanding. And to the people who say "you don't need experience to understand rules," you are part of the problem. While experience may not be a factor in understanding rules, it is certainly pivotal in understanding contexts, perspective and positions of individual characters.

 

If I am and administrator and have no understanding in police procedures or legislations, for talk sake. And I start questioning him on why he targeted somebody during a traffic stop, what prompted him to shoot an armed suspect, what led him to conduct a search or what his reason was for arresting somebody based on a hunch, my perspective on the situation will be highly uneducated. If he stated that his character considered their driving erratic, he thought the suspected reached for a weapon and he searched somebody based on a hunch then, in the way things are currently being handled for illegal roleplayers, I'd consider that "poor escalation of a situation" in comparison. From a criminal perspective it's no different than acting on perspective, context and according to the situations.

 

Experience is crucial in dealing with these situations is what this all boils down to. If you don't have experience, you must be openminded and be able to put the shoe on the other foot for enlightenment.

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I estimate that 80% of the admin team consists of legal roleplayers and only 20% of illegals that is simply too little. Everyone here knows that GTA:W target group are and were the legal roleplayers, that said nervous once itself and that they will now also this coming year more focus on the illegal roleplay. Therefore, there should also be a tendency to get more illegal roleplayers in the team, I was myself already in two to three situations where I noticed that the admin simply did not understand my context because he could not understand the background of the illegal roleplay.

 

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