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why does the city feel dead?


ZaE

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1 hour ago, DasFroggy said:

What makes it doubly hilarious is that this was exactly the problem predicted when the criminal community leaned all in on extortion. Businesses are drying up, because it's just not safe enough to go to one, much less actually operate one.

???? People do extortion? How the fuck do you do extortion in GTA:W

Edited by ZaE
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32 minutes ago, ZaE said:

???? People do extortion? How the fuck do you do extortion in GTA:W

 

There was actually a bad rash of it a few months back, with quite a few businesses being hit multiple times by different groups. 

 

The way extortion is supposed to work, is you show up, do business, build relations, and offer services. Maybe you subtly tell the owner that things around that part of town aren't so safe, and offer a little bit of protection that could go a long way, if you catch my drift. From there just apply enough pressure now and then, but keep things friendly with escalation being necessary only if they went and did something really disappointing. One of your boys comes back with a broken hand? A crying shame the disagreeable shop owner is going to get a visit so he can see the door closed and the open sign flipped to closed, so that the impending bare knuckle "discussion" can go without interruption.

 

How it *actually* worked was a bit different. Instead you'd have gangbangers from across the city drive up and threaten the shop owner at gunpoint, telling them they could either pay up or die. No actual protection, no previous discussions, it was pay then and pay well, or you could expect you and your shop to be gone by the next day. Oh, and if you did business with anyone else or told the cops, it was (back then at least) grounds for a CK application. The demanded pay wasn't anything to sneeze at either, usually around ten to twenty thousand dollars per visit, and as mentioned before, the lack of actual return on that investment in the form of criminal supplied security, meant other groups could roll in and make their own demands. It was heavily scrutinized as being a cheap loophole around robbery permission requirements.

 

I can't remember if we actually ever tackled that issue with new rules or not... It's been a while. That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the extortions then correlate with the business shortage today.

 

I am not at all surprised that nightclubs are one of the few remaining businesses, seeing as they have good enough reason and income to hire security for screening out problem people. What's concerning is that even that isn't enough to stop people from showing up and trying to kill someone.

 

 

Edited by DasFroggy
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2 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

 

There was actually a bad rash of it a few months back, with quite a few businesses being hit multiple times by different groups. 

 

The way extortion is supposed to work, is you show up, do business, build relations, and offer services. Maybe you subtly tell the owner that things around that part of town aren't so safe, and offer a little bit of protection that could go a long way, if you catch my drift. From there just apply enough pressure now and then, but keep things friendly with escalation being necessary only if they went and did something really disappointing. One of your boys comes back with a broken hand? A crying shame the disagreeable shop owner is going to get a visit so he can see the door closed and the open sign flipped to closed, so that the impending bare knuckle "discussion" can go without interruption.

 

How it *actually* worked was a bit different. Instead you'd have gangbangers from across the city drive up and threaten the shop owner at gunpoint, telling them they could either pay up or die. No actual protection, no previous discussions, it was pay then and pay well, or you could expect you and your shop to be gone by the next day. Oh, and if you did business with anyone else or told the cops, it was (back then at least) grounds for a CK application. The demanded pay wasn't anything to sneeze at either, usually around ten to twenty thousand dollars per visit, and as mentioned before, the lack of actual return on that investment in the form of criminal supplied security, meant other groups could roll in and make their own demands. It was heavily scrutinized as being a cheap loophole around robbery permission requirements.

 

I can't remember if we actually ever tackled that issue with new rules or not... It's been a while. That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the extortions then correlate with the business shortage today.

 

I am not at all surprised that nightclubs are one of the few remaining businesses, seeing as they have good enough reason and income to hire security for screening out problem people. What's concerning is that even that isn't enough to stop people from showing up and trying to kill someone.

 

 

That’s actually crazy, thanks for this insight!

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4 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the extortions then correlate with the business shortage today.

This is a different issue entirely in my opinion. I think this is attributed to two major points:

 

1) Property Management should have never have started this cycle of opening / closing requests and instead streamlined the process. What happens now is that the closing creates a huge shortage of businesses. People go inactive. Businesses stop opening. But when requests are closed, no one can take over that business or request a new one until they open once every 6-8 weeks. When requests do open, they get 200+ requests that take weeks to go through, which gets tiring for both property management and the players. I said this from the very beginning that this would be a detriment to the server. 


2) Escalation, as you discussed already. It’s a huge problem. It’s not fun to open a business all to get it shut down 30 minutes later because someone has to start a fight and escalate to an all out gun battle for no reason. People go into businesses with the OOC mission to cause problems. It’s so apparent when people do it, yet it’s not being handled or even addressed by anyone in control. It’s not just a few incidents here and there, it’s all the time. 

 

Over time this has become a huge hassle and I think people are getting tired and worn out. The long wait to get a property all to have incident after incident night after night when you open? As IC as that particular issue may be, it’s still a huge issue nonetheless. I think people are just tired of opening and dealing with the mess. I know I got tired of it.

Edited by 99
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16 hours ago, averycoolguy said:

 

They wouldn't have to be inside if there weren't 50 Davis bangers ready to rob them outside.

You say it like there are 50 gangbangers outside their property daily, and as one of the apparently 'Davis gangbanger' I have yet to actually get threatened in character. 
I can go out in Davis without having any problems, maybe you are one of the posh roleplayers who randomly visit Davis for some odd reason? (Making an assumption)
When you decide to roleplay in certain regions of the map, you actively make up your mind of roleplaying there and also accept the potential fact that you might get robbed.
But if you don't want to get robbed or threatened, why play at all?

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48 minutes ago, Alys said:

You say it like there are 50 gangbangers outside their property daily, and as one of the apparently 'Davis gangbanger' I have yet to actually get threatened in character. 
I can go out in Davis without having any problems, maybe you are one of the posh roleplayers who randomly visit Davis for some odd reason? (Making an assumption)
When you decide to roleplay in certain regions of the map, you actively make up your mind of roleplaying there and also accept the potential fact that you might get robbed.
But if you don't want to get robbed or threatened, why play at all?


You don't need 50 gangbangers daily. 1 bad experience is enough.

Edited by averycoolguy
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1 hour ago, Alys said:

You say it like there are 50 gangbangers outside their property daily, and as one of the apparently 'Davis gangbanger' I have yet to actually get threatened in character. 
I can go out in Davis without having any problems, maybe you are one of the posh roleplayers who randomly visit Davis for some odd reason? (Making an assumption)
When you decide to roleplay in certain regions of the map, you actively make up your mind of roleplaying there and also accept the potential fact that you might get robbed.
But if you don't want to get robbed or threatened, why play at all?

They don't bring heat to their own hood, they commit crimes outside of it.

 

Davis is safer than any other place on the map.

Edited by Jennie
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I like how people are acting like Davis is the only place with gangs. There are literally gang tags all over Hawick right now. And the same four gang bangers constantly causing problems in Vinewood. There is literally no where on the map where people should feel safe spending time outside. The argument that "it doesn't happen to me, so it must not happen," is just silly. There are a million reasons it might not happen to you.

 

Enough people are telling you that it's a problem that it's just nonsense to assume they are all making it up. I've walked from Awick through to Mirror Park barefoot and been left totally alone on peak. I've also been robbed standing by my front door waiting for a taxi. Just a week ago, my charactr was arguing behind a club in Vinewood with her partner, in an area KNOWN Icly to be crawling with OCG characters. And still had a car with four people pull up and put guns in our faces after scouting the area, driving around clearly looking for someone to rob.

 

Whether people want to admit it or not, it is a problem. Being outside is not safe. This isn't an illegal vs legal RPer problem. There are SO many great illegal chars and rpers and legal. This needs to be a good vs bad RP argument. That should be the only "us vs them" attitude that people have.

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