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On 9/28/2021 at 1:10 PM, Flou said:

2) In order to prevent wrongly accusing players, an English test should be administered before the player is issued probation. A similar test should also be used after the probation period to see if the player had improved.

 

I'm dead.

 

In all seriousness though, I strongly disagree. You shouldn't gatekeep a server based on how good someone's English level is (obviously depending on the severity, but I doubt they would pass the initial test if they had that much of a lack of English speaking skills in the first place). I've seen plenty of players that roleplay well, but their English isn't the best, and that's totally fine. The way they improve is by continuing to play and receive helpful feedback from their peers.

 

Implementing any system like this is going to do more harm than good. Why scare off potential great players just because their English levels aren't that of a native English speaker? A lot of people play video games to get away from that kind of stress.

 

Throughout my years on SAMP, I've seen plenty of players improve their language speaking skills through roleplay, both in text and voice. It's actually crazy how much this format can improve a player's English speaking levels.

 

In conclusion, you aren't forced to stick to anyone with sub-par English levels. If you see someone struggling, send them a quick PM, giving them some helpful feedback (without being a dick, of course). If they show improvement, awesome! You've just made the server more immersive for yourself, and for everyone else.

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1 hour ago, GF said:

 

I'm dead.

 

In all seriousness though, I strongly disagree. You shouldn't gatekeep a server based on how good someone's English level is (obviously depending on the severity, but I doubt they would pass the initial test if they had that much of a lack of English speaking skills in the first place). I've seen plenty of players that roleplay well, but their English isn't the best, and that's totally fine. The way they improve is by continuing to play and receive helpful feedback from their peers.

 

Implementing any system like this is going to do more harm than good. Why scare off potential great players just because their English levels aren't that of a native English speaker? A lot of people play video games to get away from that kind of stress.

 

Throughout my years on SAMP, I've seen plenty of players improve their language speaking skills through roleplay, both in text and voice. It's actually crazy how much this format can improve a player's English speaking levels.

 

In conclusion, you aren't forced to stick to anyone with sub-par English levels. If you see someone struggling, send them a quick PM, giving them some helpful feedback (without being a dick, of course). If they show improvement, awesome! You've just made the server more immersive for yourself, and for everyone else.

 

1) "(obviously depending on the severity, but I doubt they would pass the initial test if they had that much of a lack of English speaking skills in the first place)" Yeah, the problem is some players enlist the help of their friends to help complete the application and there is no way for helpers or admins to pick up on it during the application stage. I highly doubt it's possible for someone to enlist the help of their friends for long-term RP.

 

2) "Why scare off potential great players just because their English levels aren't that of a native English speaker?" You do realize that the current practice is to straight up ban players with bad English, right? This probation system was suggested to welcome players, not scare them off. Players will have a peace of mind knowing that they get to improve their English when playing on World without the fear of being banned. Imagine this - you're a player who's struggling with English, but somehow passed the application stage. You spend weeks, even months, to develop a character. One day, an admin picks up on your bad English and you're immediately banned for it. All those months of character development go right down the toilet. Would you want it to happen to you? I wouldn't.

3) "A lot of people play video games to get away from that kind of stress." Yeah, I do too. It's stressful for me when I can't understand an emote, when very specific detail is required. When I take time to try and understand what they're trying to emote, my stress gets increased when the player(s) goes "stop stalling". 

 

4) "Throughout my years on SAMP, I've seen plenty of players improve their language speaking skills through roleplay, both in text and voice. It's actually crazy how much this format can improve a player's English speaking levels." Yeah, I'm one of them. I grew up in a household that spoke not a lick of English. However, I haven't been banned from any SAMP RP community and was even made admin on one, because I stuck to passive RP until my English got better. 

 

5) "In conclusion, you aren't forced to stick to anyone with sub-par English levels. If you see someone struggling, send them a quick PM, giving them some helpful feedback (without being a dick, of course)." Please read one of my follow up posts. Not all players take feedback positively, even if you give them it in the nicest possible manner. 

 

Once again, I don't understand why people are straight up saying that this suggestion discriminates against players with poor English skills. I literally suggested this to give players a chance to learn and develop their English skills passively instead of having them banned right away and having their time wasted on developing a character. 

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2 hours ago, Flou said:

Yeah, the problem is some players enlist the help of their friends to help complete the application and there is no way for helpers or admins to pick up on it during the application stage. I highly doubt it's possible for someone to enlist the help of their friends for long-term RP.

 

That sounds like an entirely different problem and I don't think what you're suggesting here solves that problem. More on this below.

 

2 hours ago, Flou said:

You do realize that the current practice is to straight up ban players with bad English, right?

 

Doesn't mean I have to totally agree with that, but it is the reality of the situation. Also, I'm fairly certain that these players receive warnings from the administrative team before they are banned.

 

I'm all for keeping the server healthy in terms of its roleplay and level of language speaking skills, but I think the application process should be the only 'test' one would take to be able to enjoy the server to it's full potential. If a bad English speaker had someone else fill out his form, then it should show when said player enters the game, leading to admins banning the player. I see it happen in my chat box all the time.

 

As I said, what I was referring to in my initial reply is if a player actually filled out the application by themselves, gaining fair access to the server.

 

If I'm piecing this correctly, what you're suggesting is giving the player who lied on their application process another chance, even though their initial entry into the server was completely bogus. This then creates more issues beyond English and roleplay levels, such as said player not reading the rules or having no understanding of how the server operates.

 

I think you're bringing up an important conversation here, I just don't think your suggestion does any good for the problems you're bringing up.

Edited by GF
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GTAW is a difficult environment for anyone learning to roleplay, let alone when you throw language barriers into the mix. This leads to a lot of frustration on both sides, delays to roleplay and ajails that would be easily avoidable for experienced roleplayers. This is unfortunately an unfair burden for the community as well as for the inexperienced player who managed to join before they're ready. Admins already have far too much work on their hands, without teaching people languages or how to roleplay ontop of that. This is something GTAW expects players to already be well versed with. 

 

If however individual admins or players want to take time to guide and teach those with language issues, then that's up to them but given admins already do so much work for the community it's not something I can ever support being mandatory. So this gets a hard no from me.

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This is just adding a lot of unnecessary work for staff which already have a lot to do. I think the onus of RP quality should also be on the collective community. If you encounter people with poor English skill, you should report them. The reality of it is, is that if they have poor English skills in-game but were suitable enough to succeed with their application then they either used a tool to help w/spelling and grammar, or alternatively they had someone else do their application.

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On 9/28/2021 at 11:13 PM, Flou said:

 

The problem with this is that it's not strictly enforced by admins. I've reported countless times IG about bad English and nothing was done.

 

I would suggest this has something to do with your expectations, and the expectations of others. The player's response in your first quote is what I would expect from a vast majority of native English speakers. No, it's not great, but I don't think it warrants any sort of punishment or pushback. If I can role-play with someone, and their role-play is acceptable, their English reads like this, then I have no issue. In fact, if I had any sort of say between taking action against any of the players for the quotes you've included, I wouldn't.

 

The only time I think that action should be taken, is when someone's lines are nonsensical or pure lazy (using words like "plz" or "u").

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You managed to use "comprehensible" in a sentence. You're fine. 
For the rest of the people that you might be referring to in this suggestion, I think that the application should be able to weed out most of the worst offenders. And that should remain as intentional. 

This is a heavy roleplay server. While there are obviously a lot more to take into account to determine if a player is suitable to play here, actually being able to convey your character's actions is basically the bare minimum of things to expect from any player.
As cynical as it sounds, I don't see why the staff should be required to babysit these players and monitor their progress when it comes to improving their knowledge about the English language. If anything, I think we should be even stricter and start weeding out players like the ones in the report example made in your initial post.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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Not supporting gatekeeping roleplay servers simply due to people's language skills.
Also, what you might consider 'acceptable' English someone else might think is subpar, there is no definition of what 'acceptable' English is. 
Extremely biased.

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