Bars and clubs...

[eTaylor]

2 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

 

Then increase the number of such businesses so that there's at least one in each timezone, or just allow the current system but disable the script-owned ones when another opens. The alternative is what we have right now - a major lack of unique businesses.

There’s plenty, but this is a game and people do these businesses because it’s something they like. A bar in concept isn’t unique but that doesn’t mean it’s not somebodies genuine interest and any less passionate. Running a business is hard, it’s more than just being open to tend to people’s niches. There’s a lot of work and time that goes into it, and people need to want to put that time in. It’s not as simple as just “organize” and just “open more”. 

[Koko]

1 hour ago, eTaylor said:

There’s plenty, but this is a game and people do these businesses because it’s something they like. A bar in concept isn’t unique but that doesn’t mean it’s not somebodies genuine interest and any less passionate.

This. I think that although there are people who have definitely created a model of low effort hospitality RP (in my opinion due in great part to centralized management across several clubs, prioritizing quantity over quality), there's still many bars/clubs that try to have an atmosphere to them and aren't just quick cashgrabs. Any business can be monetized if you can work around it somehow, unless your concept is so niche that nobody would even approach it IRL.

 

My advice for businesses that don't have repeat customers: find a small aspect that can engage a small core of people that isn't necessarily your main activity. The candy store in Koreatown isn't popular because people are dying to buy candy. It's popular because local characters can gather there regardless of age and just chat about neighborhood business. If you have a business that is hard to monetize, find a small thing that can encourage interaction between customers regardless of purchase.

 

You can have a business where people go for the product (cars, properties, luxury goods, jewelry...) or you can have places where people go for socialization opportunities. If you have a store that sells incense, candles and weird Saints and Virgin plaques and some astrology paraphernalia, people might come in once to see it. If you do Tarot readings, you might find people coming more often for the interaction factor, see?

 

An important aspect is to decide where your business stands, and whether it works best as product-oriented or socialization-oriented. Hint: niche products likely mean you'll be the latter.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Koko

[Rafiki]

Cough, cough. Doppler Cinema Vinewood is back open we run some pretty cool movies! Awesome change from going to a club or bar and we have plenty of players RPing while in the cinema watching the film. 

 

But having skimmed through this thread there are some good points about advertising I've seen. I usually get enough WPs through affiliate links per month to get gold for free so lucky me. However since the /ads update change and the change in how often you can advertise I have noticed it get much harder to let people know you're open! /bad helps even more now than ever because in the past if you didnt have bad you could at least post more ads that people would see. The way ads works now i find less people see whats being advertised and in turn what businsses are open that dont have /bad

Also I have seen people mention open venues showing on the business menu, this isnt the case that feature only works for set businesses. For example it didnt ever work for the cinema.

Another interesting note to think about is I fought hard for a 24/7 cinema blip for the Doppler Cinema years ago. I love it, dont take it away from me! But its really not that useful, unless people see a green blip they pay no attention. My 24/7 cinema icon is gray so people dont even know what it is some how until i point it out.

 

Although with ALL that said if i open most days at 8:30pm (used to open at that time, might be a bit later now im back on GTA W) eventually regardless of /bad or no bad people will show up, or they will check our FB page. So you can get around these things with persistence but in my opinion it has got much more difficult for non donators to start their business and advertise. Those willing to spend IRL money in turn have more ways to advertise now like that event calendar. Although most people get donator for bad so maybe the server wouldnt be able to survive without it. Im sure they would but it would lower their profit by a lot

Edited November 17, 2021 by Rafiki

[ENDREAS]

On 11/15/2021 at 8:18 PM, Topinambour said:

Yep... the lack of map blip is a solid killer for most businesses, which means paying OOC money is a pre-requisite for a successful business :x Not amazing. 

.

[Mahitto]

On 11/17/2021 at 8:20 PM, Koko said:

Any business can be monetized if you can work around it somehow, unless your concept is so niche that nobody would even approach it IRL.

 

Your point about K-Town is good, but the interest of people stems from a different source. They're interested in such concepts because the businesses are either fronts for factions in the area or are simply active within a community that, partly due to factions, grew to like hanging out together in more unique circumstances.

 

That's a one-off, though. Go to almost any other part of the server with a concept that's not a bar or club and you'll have great difficulty getting people to engage. I've seen that bakery in Paleto, for example, or the tea house in Hawick. They're nice concepts, not very niche, but barely get any engagement. It's mostly people who only go there once because nothing else is open or because they're curious, but don't hang around or don't return.

 

Sure, you can make some money out of anything but there's a long way to creating a small social hub. The reason bars and clubs do it so well is because people are more comfortable with these concepts and associate them with social RP. Anything different will have a much, much harder time to find people to regularly hang around there.

 

After all, as a business owner, it's much much much better to be able to gather a crowd to role-play at your business than it is to actually make money from it. I'd take a social hub over a money-maker any day.  

[L I C E]

I advertised my architecture business once and had four people walk in at 9am with 120 people online in the morning asking if it was a bar. That should give you an idea of how the server works.

[Koko]

19 hours ago, Mahitto said:

 

Your point about K-Town is good, but the interest of people stems from a different source. They're interested in such concepts because the businesses are either fronts for factions in the area or are simply active within a community that, partly due to factions, grew to like hanging out together in more unique circumstances.

 

That's a one-off, though. Go to almost any other part of the server with a concept that's not a bar or club and you'll have great difficulty getting people to engage. I've seen that bakery in Paleto, for example, or the tea house in Hawick. They're nice concepts, not very niche, but barely get any engagement. It's mostly people who only go there once because nothing else is open or because they're curious, but don't hang around or don't return.

 

Sure, you can make some money out of anything but there's a long way to creating a small social hub. The reason bars and clubs do it so well is because people are more comfortable with these concepts and associate them with social RP. Anything different will have a much, much harder time to find people to regularly hang around there.

 

After all, as a business owner, it's much much much better to be able to gather a crowd to role-play at your business than it is to actually make money from it. I'd take a social hub over a money-maker any day.  

 

I'm not sure that I agree with your idea here, really. K-Town can be replicated and is replicated in smaller scales by people in small communities like Morningwood for example, where they have a nice core of characters working script jobs in the area (gas stations, general stores etc.) to give the impression of a lived-in community. Morningwood is a good example because many of its players and inhabitants are active on Facebrowser and show themselves doing daily life RP, which brings more people to seek that sort of promise out, by virtue of just consistently opening the basic GTA businesses as minimum wage workers.

 

Paleto on the other hand is far away for the city person, and the housing situation makes it so that the community really is doomed from the start unless they all happen to be available on the same timezone, have the same interests and RP consistently. Add to it that owning a Paleto house is some sort of OOC status symbol because of their rarity, and you'll find that there's not enough of a pool of people in Paleto to consistently create RP because the community is divided between millionaires who bought a summer house they never go to vs. the few locals between EU and US times that manage to get together.

 

Hawick at the same time suffers from this same thing in the sense that for many people it's a residential area where a mix of richer and poorer people hang out, but there's really not a lot to see. In any way working at a business in Hawick and having been around there every day lately, I've seen  lots of people RPing on Hawick Avenue, opposite of Hawaiian Snow and somewhere down the avenue, in groups of around a dozen outside the script clothing store and the parking lots etc. RP is out there and communities can be created, K-Town is not an anomaly. Many neighborhoods are ripe for having small groups give them an identity.

[peasoup]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:46 AM, Mahitto said:

The only way to make unique businesses pop up, generate RP and prosper is to make everything controlled by players, and it needs to be done en masse. Want makeup? Visit a salon. Nails? A mani-pedi, spa, whatever. Want new clothes? Go to a player-owned store (and each could sell different clothes). If no place is open, then you'd have to wait and schedule a visit. Otherwise there will never be actual demand for unique role-play. We need a huge influx of scripts to support unique businesses. It would benefit literally everyone. 

 

Yes. People have to go to salons to do their makeup. Like, some people go to the salon several times a day for this. This is a thing in RL and makes perfect sense.

 

No to all of the above, it's just a bad idea. You'll just force people to go into these places against their will, doing non-IC RP. It's like going to the mechanic to buy a rusty livery, but multiplied by a thousand. I've had nail RP that lasted way over 30 minutes, now imagine everyone having to wait in line for that. The workers will feel rushed, people will begrudge the whole process and RP quality will plummet, much like it already does in garages.

[Engelbert]

I wonder what is non-ic roleplay? Oh wait I could name tons of examples, which I won't cause this ain't my rant thread here. On the other hand, what would people want? Instant haircut change? Sure, just not in player owned business. I roleplay a tattoo artist and no I never allow people just to pop in, get a quick tat and get out without roleplay. And if someone is gonna roleplay my customer, they should know, that tattoos in real life take hours to complete. Depends on design of course, but the big ones even take multiple sessions. Just like I have to sit 30 minutes at hairdresser listening to their rants about government. So people should finally decide what they want, we can have both ways or we can have just one. Rest assured if you step into my parlor, you are not walking away in 30 minutes. So choose wisely if you want to rp getting a tattoo, or just getting a tatoo.

Same thing go with all other shops I'd say. Even with lack of player owned clothing stores, I for example roleplay going to buy clothes or roleplay going to hairdresser. Others just stop and park their cars right infront of a shop blocking the entrance for quick cut or to peruse clothes in the shop. I swear sometimes I wanna tow their cars so badly.

 

[Paenymion]

More cafes open in the evening would be nice.  Somewhere you can go and grab a coffee.  Evening seems to be clubs, bars, casinos and stripper places only.  Think of the poor cops and medics who might want to have a break and mix with the community but they can't because there's only rough biker bars or nightclubs open after like 7pm.