how and why are there so many rich people

[Adv]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:02 PM, DasFroggy said:

 

It's not beyond me to admit a misunderstanding and make amends. I apologize for my incorrect assessment.

 

That said, something that would go a long way to helping prevent any future misunderstandings, would be the changing of how application-acquired homes read when approached. Instead of leaving them unmarked, maybe have a message included when you near the door that states "Apply at (forum/application link here) for this home". As it is, when the door is approached, the message given suggests only that it's owned and cannot be interacted with outside of how you normally would with homes owned by other people. There's literally nothing to imply an application process is involved at all, much less that the property is even available to begin with.

 

This change would dispell a great deal of pessimism surrounding the housing market, and help many of the roleplayers that don't check the forums regularly enough to get the messages you want conveyed.

 

Just to add - I definitely have some ideas to run around this. I'd like to work on a revamped version of map.gta.world which displays houses that are available for application, and provide some more transparency here. I'll be raising it with the powers that be, for sure. 

 

We'll pitch back to the wider PM team! 

 

 

[DasFroggy]

31 minutes ago, Adv said:

 

Just to add - I definitely have some ideas to run around this. I'd like to work on a revamped version of map.gta.world which displays houses that are available for application, and provide some more transparency here. I'll be raising it with the powers that be, for sure. 

 

We'll pitch back to the wider PM team! 

 

 

 

This would help massively. Thank you.

[Fenris]

35 minutes ago, Adv said:

 

Just to add - I definitely have some ideas to run around this. I'd like to work on a revamped version of map.gta.world which displays houses that are available for application, and provide some more transparency here. I'll be raising it with the powers that be, for sure. 

 

We'll pitch back to the wider PM team! 

 

 

That'd be awesome, I had to run round to different houses to see if they were taken or not, which from an IC view would look really dodgy.

[Topinambour]

2 hours ago, Adv said:

 

Just to add - I definitely have some ideas to run around this. I'd like to work on a revamped version of map.gta.world which displays houses that are available for application, and provide some more transparency here. I'll be raising it with the powers that be, for sure. 

 

We'll pitch back to the wider PM team! 

You guys would be the heroes of the people there ^^ 

[Mahitto]

  

16 hours ago, Engelbert said:

I always wondered, if people have time talking about stuff here 24/7, who is rping? Anyway the way I see it, if you earned your money through roleplay, it does not matter what amount of assets you are sitting on. They are yours. You did not break any rules, you roleplayed earning them, so what? Does your char has a family, they provide for? Do they save up for their retirement? If not, why not buy what you want, if you can buy it. It's a game where we wake up with a memory loss when we die. So nobody should be butthurt over neighbour's 3 cars and new plasma TV screen. Get your own.

 

Because unlike real-life, we have OOC factors coming into play. Most characters are presumably working 40-hour weeks, although some people are more active than others. If you play for 5 hours a day, you'll automatically have more cash than someone who plays for 1 hour a day. If you're in a legal faction for long, paychecks will just stack up, same with most other jobs. You can start a business and if you're active and get $20k a day, you'll have over a million dollars by the end of the month. It's all about activity. Time is the one and only factor that messes up any 1:1 realism we could ever wish for, which can't be properly portrayed regardless of what you do. And in that sense, it makes absolutely no sense for a poor character to use the $2 million dollars he had gathered by doing nothing or just being active and end up with, say, police officers living in a million dollar villa and driving a Rolls Royce to work in their Brioni.

 

And unfortunately we can't do anything about it, except to portray a certain amount of wealth and use the OOC script money to power whatever role-play we want. It has no purpose other than that.

[Joseph Tarano]

On 9/16/2021 at 8:52 AM, CertifiedKiller said:

I'd rather there be an abundance of money rather than having to grind. I don't want GTA:W to be a second job. I think people should be able to set their starter cash when creating a character so they can accurately portray their character's wealth and background i.e /setbankcash [0-200000] when creating a character

 

This is such an underrated idea and an interesting concept, too. 
 

It would be something that defies the norms of roleplay servers and allows people to really run away with their ideas from day one. 
 

We already get 200k starter cash, and being able to set it to 200k from day one would be very interesting. 
 

Just because people have lots of money, it doesn’t mean that the server instantly becomes a stunt server. 
 

The negative effects I can see, though, is the fact that if there was an ability for players to be able to set their cash, we’d quickly have no houses or property left because people would just hoard them. 
 

We’d have to impose ownership limits on property if we allowed people to set how much cash they could start with. 
 

The above is me mostly thinking out loud. 
 

This is a roleplay server, and I would be happy to see people be uninhibited by cash. If people wanted to grind out jobs for cash then they still could — just set your starter cash to $0. 
 

Trucker jobs etc only exist as a means to provide roleplay and to flatten the economy. If people could set their own money, it’d allow them to focus on roleplay and it’d weed out the things that are just there purely to make script cash. 
 

Some people enjoy treating this like RuneScape and grinding for money, let those people do it. Those of us who work full time/multiple jobs/school etc, let us decide how much our own characters have and focus on roleplay. 
 

Again, this is me thinking out loud, but I feel your suggestion should be looked at in more depth, and I would be interested to hear what @Nervous thinks about the idea.

[Mahitto]

26 minutes ago, Joseph Tarano said:

This is such an underrated idea and an interesting concept, too. 
 

It would be something that defies the norms of roleplay servers and allows people to really run away with their ideas from day one. 
 

We already get 200k starter cash, and being able to set it to 200k from day one would be very interesting. 
 

Just because people have lots of money, it doesn’t mean that the server instantly becomes a stunt server. 
 

The negative effects I can see, though, is the fact that if there was an ability for players to be able to set their cash, we’d quickly have no houses or property left because people would just hoard them. 
 

We’d have to impose ownership limits on property if we allowed people to set how much cash they could start with. 
 

The above is me mostly thinking out loud. 
 

This is a roleplay server, and I would be happy to see people be uninhibited by cash. If people wanted to grind out jobs for cash then they still could — just set your starter cash to $0. 
 

Trucker jobs etc only exist as a means to provide roleplay and to flatten the economy. If people could set their own money, it’d allow them to focus on roleplay and it’d weed out the things that are just there purely to make script cash. 
 

Some people enjoy treating this like RuneScape and grinding for money, let those people do it. Those of us who work full time/multiple jobs/school etc, let us decide how much our own characters have and focus on roleplay. 
 

Again, this is me thinking out loud, but I feel your suggestion should be looked at in more depth, and I would be interested to hear what @Nervous thinks about the idea.

 

Some people have suggested that in the past and while it works in theory, it'd be horrible in practice. Most people would just set their cash to whatever the maximum is, either to role-play being rich or afford role-playing being poor, which can also cost a ton of money. It would make the vast majority of concepts we have obsolete, as the main motive behind most stuff that drives society is money. No one would really have to work, legally or not. Few people would portray that properly, unfortunately.

[Paenymion]

I pondered something similar in the past: what would it be like with no scripted money?  But the problem is that we don't really have a unified view of what "heavy RP" is.  If everyone agreed that it is simply developing a character through interactions and story, then why do we even need scripted money?  If you want to tell a story of being a rich person: be a rich person.  If you want to tell a story of being a poor person: be a poor person.  Who cares right?  It would quickly weed out people who don't share the same view like "Oh noes, that sports car I spent 3 months grinding for, now EVERYONE can just have it free? wtf I'm leaving".  Meanwhile the person voluntarily roleplaying a homeless hobo wouldn't care less if a sports car is free or not.  We'd probably see a lot less paranoia about robberies/car thefts too.  Why vpark your car every single time if the only consequence of it being stolen is just an enrichment of your character's story?  The reliance on scripted money that needs OOC time to get just makes people too protective of things on an OOC level.  Same for guns, people wouldn't bother looting themselves stupidly or doing low quality robberies if they could be acquired purely through roleplay and didn't require scripted money.  But of course, such a huge change wouldn't happen, it's too much of a departure from the established LSRP formula.  It's something a completely new server would have to try, and see how it goes.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Paenymion

[Topinambour]

27 minutes ago, Paenymion said:

I pondered something similar in the past: what would it be like with no scripted money?  But the problem is t[...] have to try, and see how it goes.

To be honest, I agree with all of this - I rarely care about the money my character carries. If I took the script money I have IC, then my dude would be living in Richman with a collection of Infernuses and other collection cars. On principle, I wholeheartedly agree - in fact it's what happens on a lot of "older" RP mediums. There are pen & paper campaigns where the players start powerful as fuck ("Ancient" scenarios in Vampire the Masquerade, "Deathwatch" in Warhammer 40k where you're a fucking monster, etc.). And most forums also offered starting very rich or very poor or whatever in-between, as long as it fit the context of the forum, and your character's background. 

 

However...

 

57 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

Some people have suggested that in the past and while it works in theory, it'd be horrible in practice. Most people would [...] Few people would portray that properly, unfortunately.

This isn't entirely true, but it's still kinda true. A server tried that once - years ago. You could select "Hobo / Low class / Middle / Middle+ / Rich / Super rich" when starting your character, and you were given tokens that could be traded for a house, another for a car, etc. And surprisingly, the result was a nice bell curve centered around the middle class. There weren't many hobos, and not many rich/super rich either. However, it was a small server (70-ish people online). So, making sure the RP was of an OK quality was simple.

 

You're still right, because on GTAW there are other issues. The first is that we got 600+ people online in the evening, and allowing this brings a very real risk of poor portrayal. The consequence of that would be a horrible overload of RPQM but also a lot of collateral damage. There's been people who IC'ly made money in a perfectly coherent way, but who were still told "that's not good" by an RPQM admin who had *zero* knowledge of any of the RP done by that character. So, if the reports multiply, those occurrences will also multiply. 

The second problem is that unlike a pen & paper campaign or a forum, the "gameplay" element is very much present. As much as we'd like to ignore it, it remains important. As a consequence, the sense of gameplay progression keeps a form of importance that we can't really ignore 😕 It's unimportant for some - like myself - but I can totally understand why it would feel important for others. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Topinambour

[knppel]

6 hours ago, Paenymion said:

Same for guns, people wouldn't bother looting themselves stupidly or doing low quality robberies if they could be acquired purely through roleplay and didn't require scripted money. 

The anachronistic thinking model behind this is that guns need to be "valuable" so people "roleplay carefully".

As obviously this does not actually happen the last resort argument is that "There'd be much more dm if everyone had guns" (when unironically most people HAVE guns ic- they're just overpriced).

 

What is behind this? A lobby of criminal org players that makes money of guns ic which they couldn't if the prices were realistic and guns cheap and widely available (as it is in the US according to my best knowledge. Not that I ever tried to get a gun there. But I can organize myself one in Vienna if needed. For a few hundred euro if I bother to get a trusted source with a weapon with no murder on it yet. Cheaper if I don't care.)

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by knppel