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how and why are there so many rich people


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5 minutes ago, SunPuddle said:

 

Too much generalizing and assuming. Show me the step-by-links from that 25k, and how it feeds direct issues to do with wealth portrayal & inflation. I don't entirely agree with your series of assumptions. I'm not convinced that the 25k in question here is more liking to be "siphoned off" by the richer players versus getting spent on vehicles, consumables, or wind up facilitating RP via door-fee's and purchasing drinks.

 

If the core issue is these hyper rich players "siphoning" off money, and a need to remove quantities of money from the economy to target "richer players", why is reducing paycheques a preference over a wealth-tax/cap or another solution that directly targets the rich players?

 

What specifically is the issue? If its role portrayal reducing starter money does nothing, that's an issue with the players themselves. If its wealth accumulation at the top of the food-chain, reducing starter money is arguably inefficient and indirect and puts the burden of regulating the rich on new players/characters. If my issue is with people who are established on the server, my solutions should be targeted at them - not newcomers.

 

 

New players use these funds to buy vehicles, properties, and weapons. Do they all buy them from players? No, not all, but a significant portion. What you mention about "getting spent on vehicles, consumables, or wind up facilitating RP via door-fee's and purchasing drinks" overlaps with money being siphoned off by richer players.

 

As for cutting pay checks being a preference over a wealth tax, this is not the case. As I mentioned before, multiple times, both need to happen, and then cutting the (un)employment checks as an addition;

 

  • Double wealth tax to 0.0002%
  • Reduce remove the additional $300 hourly wages from script jobs ($500 remains)
  • Reduce starter pay checks by 12,5% 

Alternatively, this another solution for the new player checks issue;

 

 

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2 minutes ago, mj2002 said:

 

New players use these funds to buy vehicles, properties, and weapons. Do they all buy them from players? No, not all, but a significant portion. What you mention about "getting spent on vehicles, consumables, or wind up facilitating RP via door-fee's and purchasing drinks" overlaps with money being siphoned off by richer players.

 

You are right that some of this is going to overlap with money siphoning off to richer players, but in the process a) it creates RP which is the very purpose of this server b) it feeds the "middle-class" of the server. It allows characters to be employed at businesses, generates RP for them in the process. The fact that the starter money allows players to do this is ultimately a good thing; within reason money facilitates roleplay, especially when people aren't OOCly too tight to RP paying door-fee's or buying drinks because they need to "grind" for that first car/apartment/gun/whatever. For those starter dollars to reach the business mogul millionaire, they have to pass through a series of roleplay to get there. The roleplay along the way is a good thing, the accumulation in the end players account may not be.

 

Ultimately the goal here is roleplay, creating as much good roleplay as possible. The economy is only relevant insofar as it either servers or hinders roleplay - nobody is here to play an economics simulator.

 

So to that point I would ask; is reducing starter money going to enhance the roleplay on the server in macro more than the collection of individual players who's roleplay it will hinder in micro? Short of doing it, and finding an objective way to assess roleplay quality, we can only speculate. That said my speculation is that it would not.

 

I would think your other solution in the unquoted portion of your post is a bit more graceful as it only really targets veteran players who have had a chance to access starting money.

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23 hours ago, Martyn said:

 

 

Your points are valid, and highlight exactly why this is such a nuanced issue. It depends on how you view multiple issues e.g. realism vs. videogame, prevention vs. intervention, IC money vs. OOC money, new characters vs. old characters and so on.

 

There is no incentive for people to spend their money, which is expected because it's a videogame and people want tangible assets to which there is a physical limit - a majority don't buy goods unless they benefit from it as we saw with the drug update. The result is people are sitting on mountains of cash in their bank, which in my opinion encourages bad character portrayal e.g. people purchasing new cars when they're implemented because they want to try them even though their character doesn't need them, only to then sell them within a few weeks; temporary characters that add no real value to the world etc.

 

The whole thing depends entirely on how management want the economy to operate however. Ideally, especially with the introduction of the new economy update, a group could be set up where management can pick the direction they want and then discuss (alongside those who may be interested) using server data how it can be achieved.

Edited by verrevert
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42 minutes ago, SunPuddle said:

You are right that some of this is going to overlap with money siphoning off to richer players, but in the process a) it creates RP which is the very purpose of this server b) it feeds the "middle-class" of the server. It allows characters to be employed at businesses, generates RP for them in the process. The fact that the starter money allows players to do this is ultimately a good thing; within reason money facilitates roleplay, especially when people aren't OOCly too tight to RP paying door-fee's or buying drinks because they need to "grind" for that first car/apartment/gun/whatever. For those starter dollars to reach the business mogul millionaire, they have to pass through a series of roleplay to get there. The roleplay along the way is a good thing, the accumulation in the end players account may not be.

 

Ultimately the goal here is roleplay, creating as much good roleplay as possible. The economy is only relevant insofar as it either servers or hinders roleplay - nobody is here to play an economics simulator.

 

So to that point I would ask; is reducing starter money going to enhance the roleplay on the server in macro more than the collection of individual players who's roleplay it will hinder in micro? Short of doing it, and finding an objective way to assess roleplay quality, we can only speculate. That said my speculation is that it would not.

 

I would think your other solution in the unquoted portion of your post is a bit more graceful as it only really targets veteran players who have had a chance to access starting money.

 

What you are missing in this is that prices such as weapons, door entries, drink prices, but also to a certain extent properties and vehicles, are influenced by the purchasing power of newer players. Right now, they just throw it away casually.

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38 minutes ago, mj2002 said:

 

What you are missing in this is that prices such as weapons, door entries, drink prices, but also to a certain extent properties and vehicles, are influenced by the purchasing power of newer players. Right now, they just throw it away casually.

 

For /certain/ things, throwing money casually is good. When it comes to exchanging money for roleplayed services, ie being willing to tip someone say 1-3k for spending an hour or two RPing doing a tattoo, or being willing to just go to businesses, or being willing to RP buying multiple drinks, because you're not so money-stressed that you'd rather save it encourages people to go out and about and interact/engage.

 

For things that aren't RP-generating to throw money at, ie properties and vehicles, there are things that regulate their price. Vehicles are pretty easy; as long as dealership prices stay static inflation doesn't impact them. Property requires regulation, of which some already exists.

 

Insofar as people use the things they purchase to create roleplay, people purchasing things is good.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Believe me, it's better that way. Otherwise the server would be full of AFK people for a dime. They wouldn't prioritize roleplay, just straight up farming. And oh, it's better to be roleplaying as a bartender/escort than be exploiting some job script in the middle of nowhere.

Edited by Legal
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6 hours ago, Legal said:

Believe me, it's better that way. Otherwise the server would be full of AFK people for a dime. They wouldn't prioritize roleplay, just straight up farming. And oh, it's better to be roleplaying as a bartender/escort than be exploiting some job script in the middle of nowhere.

It's literally what happened on previous servers, that didn't have the "free 200k". People AFK'd for hours until they could buy a basic car / place to live in*. And for those who had bigger ambitions, they literally used bots/scripts to automatically fish in deep sea for 20 hours in a row (big love to Soup & Jinx, love you guys ❤️ ).

 

Current system isn't perfect, it could probably be improved. But we don't need to imagine what could happen, if we returned to the previous state: we already know. It happened on other servers 😛 And it's not amazing. 

 

*and no they didn't "just call a taxi": if you can't pay for a car, you're not gonna waste 1h of revenue on a taxi

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On 9/15/2021 at 2:46 PM, proletariat said:

where did all this wealth come from for your characters?

 

I've literally been scouring the housing market for a low quality south central house/home for months now, but the going price is regularly "I'll trade it for another house" or not available at all. 

 

Playing as a poor character is desired, but all that remains available are well-off condos in really nice parts of town.

 

It's weird that looking rich is the only affordable option :c

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4 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

 

I've literally been scouring the housing market for a low quality south central house/home for months now, but the going price is regularly "I'll trade it for another house" or not available at all. 

 

Playing as a poor character is desired, but all that remains available are well-off condos in really nice parts of town.

 

It's weird that looking rich is the only affordable option :c

Being rich and portraying rich is two completely different things. In my old SAMP days I've done a ton of roleplays like being a gang outsider, or an fob illegal immigrant, and roleplayed being poor (even with millions on bank). That's the beauty of roleplaying, you can be whatever you want.

People will stop portraying rich people when it becomes boring for them.

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