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Thoughts on the Senate?


Anders

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13 hours ago, Tseard said:

can you address why the election that was about to start was suspended? @HaveADream, from my understanding everything was already cleared by LFM.

 

and from personal experience communicating with LFM is just really really hard, easier said than done. wouldn't be surprised if the same happened with people reaching out about the senate. 

Just pending a bit of reform I think that management wanted to see, hopefully there's an outcome soon.

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On 8/25/2021 at 2:39 AM, HaveADream said:

Some strange takes here.

 

1) OOC intervention is born out faction reports usually that are considered valid - it's used as a last resort but it's difficult to be proactive and read every bill for issues before it goes to a full vote just simply out of time constraints and priorities within LFM, and perhaps the knowledge that there is that final safeguard makes it easier to intervene only when we have to. I think we have only ever veto'd three or four bills.

 

2) The second election system was designed literally because the script was broken and unfixable in a short period of time leading up to the first election, wasn't anyones intention to maintain people as senators. That's the fault of LFM and wasn't a system we intended to repeat.

 

3) I liked the district system and wanted to go back to it, perhaps we can.

 

4) Someone mentioned that FLD and the SHAFT code are misaligned - we don't have a stake in it as LFM and if it goes to a lawsuit, then so be it. Nobody has ever tried and just assumed what we'd do - I've never even been asked about it.

 

5) A lot of assumptions in this thread are based around server management or myself and my team having a deep stake in politics - we don't, if there was a bill that banned flying spaghetti, it wouldn't affect me, it wouldn't change my life and wouldn't change what my team did, we react and respond in several occasions:

 

a) The bill will negatively impact illegal factions or legal factions to a significant degree without prior consultation with stakeholders (e.g. this was the weed bill and the RICO bill).

b) The bill will require script support that we cannot spare.

c) As a result of a faction report.

d) A change that'll impact a legal faction that wasn't pre-discussed with that factions handler e.g. giving LSNN a billion dollars every month.

 

 

LFM isn't here to micromanage the senate, nor do we want to, but when you have 5 people who are able to make server-wide decisions that are perhaps either not communicated with LFM or the stakeholders that the bill will affect, that does require action. I'm not saying I or anyone else needs to be briefed on every single bill, but when huge server-wide bills that have far-reaching and dramatic consequences, perhaps even not immediate ones, aren't consulted with LFM or even discussed prior OOCly with stakeholders, it does force a small panic. 

 

We're going to be creating guidance for when the senate is back up and running detailing what each party would like to see from each other to make communication a little smoother.

 

All I ever wanted, and the whole reason I created an election system in the first place was to provide that player-elected, player-chosen decision-making force, and I do want them to make key decisions and have huge impacts and do super cool amazing legal stuff, but the reality changed for me when I saw how wide these bills affect people, their roleplay and their factions. I fought for this when I joined LFM and pushed for it and made sure it happened, I organised the whole first election by myself because everybody shrugged it off as something that wouldn't last - well, it has, fortunately! I love how this has developed but there are still critical and institutional issues with this that have grown and adapted over time through different handlers and faction leaders. We have a responsibility, not only as a sub-team, but as a community, to make sure we're looking out for each other, and making sure everyone has the best experience they can. Sometimes we disagree on what that is, but hey...

 

That's politics 😉

 

 

How long will that RICO bill take to consult? 

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If there is one thing I learned from LS-RP is that the transition from City Government and Mayor RP to State RP and Governor RP is that it was disastrous and lead to the demise of a great branch of legal RP. I'd like it to be different, Senate holds too much power and does dumb decisions imo, like this new ATV/Dirtbike ban, what's next? restrict cars? I seriously don't mind when it get's veto'ed out by OOC staff, there is a limit...

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1 minute ago, Kowboy said:

If there is one thing I learned from LS-RP is that the transition from City Government and Mayor RP to State RP and Governor RP is that it was disastrous and lead to the demise of a great branch of legal RP. I'd like it to be different, Senate holds too much power and does dumb decisions imo, like this new ATV/Dirtbike ban, what's next? restrict cars? I seriously don't mind when it get's veto'ed out by OOC staff, there is a limit...

we have a mayor and city government. Where are they? A mayor/city cant enact changes that affects the entire state, only the city.

 

How will they propose stuff that changes stuff in Paleto? Or park rangers? or the port? The courts?

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2 minutes ago, Anders said:

we have a mayor and city government. Where are they? A mayor/city cant enact changes that affects the entire state, only the city.

 

How will they propose stuff that changes stuff in Paleto? Or park rangers? or the port? The courts?

I don't know you ask them hah, during all my time here never saw one city government worker or the mayor holding a speech dude is afk-ing collecting paycheck. And just what exactly needs to be changed in Paleto? Park Rangers have a Chief or whatever it's called that can do changes for them, ports was handled by Mayor in LS-RP and the courts are a different branch with their own Justice Department faction if I'm not wrong.

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1 minute ago, Kowboy said:

I don't know you ask them hah, during all my time here never saw one city government worker or the mayor holding a speech dude is afk-ing collecting paycheck. And just what exactly needs to be changed in Paleto? Park Rangers have a Chief or whatever it's called that can do changes for them, ports was handled by Mayor in LS-RP and the courts are a different branch with their own Justice Department faction if I'm not wrong.

No. Park Rangers cant do changes without the law ordering them to do so same with everything else. There is no department of justice, the courts follow the laws which is decided by the Senate. A city cant change that.

 

The port is under the state and is considered a state agency. The fire marshals too. Paleto was a example to show you that Los Santos isnt the only place where people RP.

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10 minutes ago, Kowboy said:

I don't know you ask them hah, during all my time here never saw one city government worker or the mayor holding a speech dude is afk-ing collecting paycheck. And just what exactly needs to be changed in Paleto? Park Rangers have a Chief or whatever it's called that can do changes for them, ports was handled by Mayor in LS-RP and the courts are a different branch with their own Justice Department faction if I'm not wrong.

 

The San Andreas Park Rangers are a law enforcement agency under the (federal, I believe) Department of Fish and Wildlife. They have a Director. They aim to protect and enforce the laws within State Forests and Parks. Legislation has to be drafted for them to enforce these laws. That's kind of like saying the LSPD can make laws for the city of Los Santos.

 

If we wanted municipal governments, we'd require one in Los Santos, one in Sandy, one in Paleto.

 

I personally like the idea of a State Government. City Governments could be a good idea but it really does require a lot of effort. The current State Senate I see now is very active, so I like what I'm seeing.

Edited by Zani
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1 hour ago, Zani said:

 

The San Andreas Park Rangers are a law enforcement agency under the (federal, I believe) Department of Fish and Wildlife. They have a Director. They aim to protect and enforce the laws within State Forests and Parks. Legislation has to be drafted for them to enforce these laws. That's kind of like saying the LSPD can make laws for the city of Los Santos.

 

As per the Supremacy Clause found in Article 6, section 2 of the US constitution, Federal law and the US Constitution always supersedes State law.

 

If SAPR is a federal agency, then maybe I'm misunderstanding you ,but SAPR don't need state laws drafting in order to enforce the law on national parks as Federal laws already exist?

 

State law can be added to compliment existing federal law, but it certainly can't overrule or override any Federal laws in national parks.

 

For example: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title36/36cfrv1_02.tpl
 

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