Thoughts on the Senate?

[waterwings]

2 hours ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

 

1) Voting System

done for OOC reasons, is a terrible one and just adds to the illegitimacy of having certain senators fixed in their positions.

 

2) Admin intervention

Admin intervention has been terrible for server politics.
Admins should NOT interfere over any IC decision unless there is an RPQ issue (e.g. The senate tries to pass a bill that is entirely unrealistic for the USA).

 

 

the senate itself has only ever seen 1 election cycle, and an incomplete one at that as new elections haven't even started yet - for the rest, it's mostly been appointments to fill up spots vacated by leaving/inactive senators to keep the ball rolling.

As far as I know, elections have been halted by server management even though they were going to start some day soon. One thing to understand is that halford v saleh was the first election we'd seen in... Months, years? It was also a mayoral election aka there's only 1. If we'd have governor elections the interest behind it would be huge as well. So it's obvious that it was a big event vs elections after. Also, we already see lobbying from senators. Just not from every single one of them- The way the voting system is set up where you vote for a party vs for individuals, meaning that the active prospects will push the rest of the party up in votes.

 

As for the second point, yes. I, for many reasons, think that LFM and server management  are interfering in IC areas where they shouldn't. I don't have a view quite as radical as you do though, and understand that at times it is absolutely needed to intervene in some situations (e.g. governor vetoing bills that wouldn't progress the server). Other areas I believe would be more suited to entirely IC avenues which, if people follow them the right way, would often lead to the same favorable outcome that LFM desires- And if it doesn't, I believe that's something you have to accept. IC government/political RP can never be a fun, positive and immersive experience for all parties involved unless it's given a higher level of independence from OOC factors than it has today. 

 

As an example, look at the SHAFT act and firearms licensing. These two are entirely controversial as the current firearms licensing entity holds IC rules that aren't established anywhere (Need a permanent residence in order to obtain a gun license among others). These rules are described IC on the FLD website which is not law. They are not in the SHAFT act but they are enforced basically because nobody wants to challenge FLD enforcing these rules as they know it is likely that LFM/server management will shut down the lawsuit. In fact, the unlawful and in some ways even unrealistic standards enforced by FLD are supposedly backed by LFM and server management.

Instead of this, it'd be better to implement more OOC regulation on the obtaining of firearms licenses OR expanding the SHAFT act to naturally strengthen firearms licensing without holding unrealistic rules- Something which an IC process from the senate could very much come up with. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by BjornV

[Alyssa McCarthy]

I had high hopes for politics on the server, even going on a number of occasions to involve and host several political rallies / speeches and debates.

 

The first set of elections where we voted for district reps for LSGOV did this correctly. The same was done correctly for Mayor.

 

However, like many players, after watching the political system be changed so that certain senator seats are for all intents and purposes 'rigged', I quickly lost interest in the shenanigan's as it was no longer a true democracy representative of the US.

 

In any case, I think a lot of people seem to agree that politics has become fairly dull on the server. We're certainly long overdue fair elections!

 

This isn't entirely on SAGOV btw, I think plenty of people here have voiced concerns about micromanagement. If you take the teeth and grittiness out of politics, you're left with just the mundane, and well, that's hardly the fun part, right?

 

 

[L I C E]

 

[Yoak]

i dont understand it at all, seems like 90% of the server don't but theres constant things being passed with the click of a finger.

[Florida]

The best example of the Senate's power is marijuana legalization.

[Matt.]

The Senate has such great possibilities for roleplay if things weren’t dictated and micromanaged by Legal Faction Management. It has become commonplace for LFM to have to stick their nose in everything the Senate, and other factions try to do which makes it quite demotivating for anyone in it to want to roleplay or actually create legislation, every bill has to go through a LFM approval at the end which many times results in a veto without first consulting anyone that actually wrote it or was involved, or forcing LFM supported bills to be voted on and passed as quickly as possible without any roleplay involved.

Edited August 23, 2021 by mattmocz

[averycoolguy]

Server Admins need to stop coddling the Illegal RP community. Thousands of homicides a year is what our LS has. The Senate should crack the fuck down on crime, giving LEOs more leeway to stop, frisk and search cars and houses and making it easier for people to gain legal weapons to defend themselves with. This is what would realistically happen in this deathtrap we call home. If the Senate can't do that, then it's useless.

Edited August 23, 2021 by averycoolguy

[friendlyman]

10 minutes ago, averycoolguy said:

Server Admins need to stop coddling the Illegal RP community. Thousands of homicides a year is what our LS has. The Senate should crack the fuck down on crime, giving LEOs more leeway to stop, frisk and search cars and houses and making it easier for people to gain legal weapons to defend themselves with. This is what would realistically happen in this deathtrap we call home. If the Senate can't do that, then it's useless.

 

Not exactly fair considering budget considerations arent a thing on the server and theres already a fuck ton of police

[Manny]

I agree with the previous posts to a certain extent. Although I understand they need a certain level of freedom, there needs to be some form of review. It wouldn't make much sense to grant six people the power to decide the entire server's faith. Also the Senate should not only be about granting law enforcement RP'ers more freedom. So far, I have interacted with some amazing political roleplayers such as Eriks, Hugh-Gi-Oh, and Adjudicator, but most people just quote real-life documents to push bills that would normally have no application in our server reality. As someone involved with the criminal justice system, I had trouble keeping track of some incomplete bills that were being pushed carelessly. All in all, the Senate should be allowed to engage in this law-making process and all, but there need to be administrative fail safes. My personal experience has tought me that Faction Management is open to suggestions and may even reconsider ideas they initially rejected if drafted appropriately. It is unfair to blame this entirely on Faction Management because most of the time they act based on complaints they receive from concerned players when certain bills are passed.

 

All in all, Senate is not a cop booster and cannot be fully independent for OOC reasons.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Manny

[averycoolguy]

1 hour ago, friendlyman said:

 

Not exactly fair considering budget considerations arent a thing on the server and theres already a fuck ton of police

If Los Angeles had our homicide rate money wouldn't be an issue.