Thoughts on the Senate?

[eTaylor]

Remove the shackles already! 

[MartosG]

I thought it's pretty cool until I learned how much interference from administration team there is, but I suppose to an extent I understand their point of view as well.

[DasFroggy]

It feels like an interesting point of conflict for the community. Obviously letting the senate pass laws requiring people maintain a diet consisting entirely of rubber ducks is... probably not going to fly, but at the same time we're seeing restrictions imposed that make the senate essentially meaningless. 

 

I can't really weigh in either way. It's almost always been just for show in other communities, so I'm not surprised that it's not terribly influential here.

[bartman]

23 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

It feels like an interesting point of conflict for the community. Obviously letting the senate pass laws requiring people maintain a diet consisting entirely of rubber ducks is... probably not going to fly, but at the same time we're seeing restrictions imposed that make the senate essentially meaningless.

The thing is that check already exists; the courts. If the senate passed a law tomorrow requiring duck dieting, 6 different lawyers would be suing to strike it down. The courts have this power, always have. A system of checks and balances would make this work largely without LFM intervention.

 
Same for PD/SD. SABI was poorly implemented but the root concept is a necessary one; a a entity ICly existing to keep PD/SD in check is a necessity, given faction sizes. No one wants to say it but dumping a police-involved murder investigation on some dudes at internal affairs is wholly unrealistic on multiple levels. The lack of such entity means the DA's office has to, which it isn't equipped to do.

But a broken system where PD/SD have virtually unchecked power and where the Senate can't do anything has one thing in common; it requires LFM intervention to make anything move.

Edited August 22, 2021 by bartman

[wizardofxyz]

12 hours ago, Martyn said:

Love the concept, quit following it straight away after noticing it doesn't have creative freedom and is restricted by management. Understandable or not, it made it less interesting to follow or to care about. Its just background noise unfortunately. Would've loved to see it different. 

 

[waterwings]

11 minutes ago, bartman said:

The thing is that check already exists; the courts. If the senate passed a law tomorrow requiring duck dieting, 6 different lawyers would be suing to strike it down. The courts have this power, always have. A system of checks and balances would make this work largely without LFM intervention.

 

the problem occurs when OOC backed motives influence LFM/management and the process is either halted at the senate already, or, the effort of the courts is shut down because it'd break the system vs letting the courts go their way and introducing new- better law to replace the law shut down by the court

 

 

 

an issue rn is the actual content the senate is pushing themselves- most laws considered "important" to specific systems are written mainly by individuals not a part of the senate themselves and then introduced mostly OOC vs a natural process of the senate writing+implementing these laws

 

tldr:
less intervention from LFM and rather let a natural process happen (with minor "advice" from OOC sources) to come to a desired outcome and have the senate more involved in the writing of "major" law- there's often a lot of alternative ways to come to the same desired outcome that DO follow legal rules / constitutionality
 

 

[Darex567]

Completely agree with @BjornV

[Anders]

Most of the points here have been valid but I feel the senate faction is important. Not because I'm in it but because of the potential it has on everyone. Especially with a upcoming IRS faction, that alone can give so much RP potential.

 

We can subpoena someone's tax records etc, set up laws or regulations regarding taxation and more. There's a lot that can be done. 

 

I also know many people don't wanna do it because they want a more actiony roleplay and pew pew vroom instead of paperwork but everything is connected.

[Alyssa McCarthy]

In it's current setup, it' is entirely illegitimate.

 

This is for two main reasons.

1) Voting System

The change to the voting system was not lost on the server. It was done to ensure that some players get to remain elected and ensure they have a seat.

OOC friend groups have been able to fix the elective process to ensure that a select group of players will always have significant power over everyone else - and that's simply unfair and unrealistic.

 

To fix this, senators should be elected fairly using the same system as California and the USA (i.e. how things were setup in the days of Halford vs Saleh).

 

This makes politics far more fun and exciting and created far more RP when politicians had to be out in their community lobbying for votes.

 

Any notion of 'It's done for OOC reasons, is a terrible one and just adds to the illegitimacy of having certain senators fixed in their positions.

 

2) Admin intervention

Admin intervention has been terrible for server politics.
Admins should NOT interfere over any IC decision unless there is an RPQ issue (e.g. The senate tries to pass a bill that is entirely unrealistic for the USA).

 

Admins stepping in over poor RPQ - good

Admins stepping in to enforce their OOC view on the server - bad.

 

 

[Halcyon]

Staff is micromanaging too much to make political roleplay meaningful or fun.