2) Powergaming - Amendment/Confirmation Regarding Script Fights.

[Allantrist]

I don't mind if people don't roleplay the start of a fight. However, I believe better emote roleplay for after fights should be done and I'm sick of seeing /me helps Bob up from the ground or /me gets up from the ground. In some situations, I've seen people do that roleplay and then continue roleplaying like they never got downed.

AS a LEO I refuse to go to most brawl call outs now. It's dead end subpar roleplay and the last one I went to I had people around me fighting, then helping each other up with the command helpup and with /me helps up Jane to go again like nothing happened. I was so confused and when I told them to stop abusing the /helpup script they said "We agreed oocly before this fight started that we'd do this" which doesn't justify abusing the helpup command and subpar roleplay generated from it.

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

20 hours ago, Triple Seven said:

 

Like you're saying, and rightly so: no two situations are the same, then how do you expect a clear rule on this? It's impossible and it's already part of the powergaming rule, perhaps even the common courtesy rule. The current rules, coupled with common sense, already cover this.

 

I know you linked some reports with different rulings, of which one I don't agree with because the characters must have had a typing indicator overhead while they were just script punched down after a single emote of someone starting to hit them, although one lacks video evidence and shows a rp response. Not all reports will be concluded with a satisfying outcome to everyone's opinion, and roleplay containing conflict will often bring out reports, that will never change. While I feel it's pretty clear the preferred standard is not followed in one of said reports, others will have a different opinion, and even opinions of it within the staff team will be different. That's the admin discretion I mentioned before and something that probably means it should be an ongoing discussion with the staff team. And honestly, when it comes to this difference in from what I can see pretty similar situations, despite not being the same, both players were typing from as far as we can see in the reports, which means the aggressor (of the script fight), didn't have the common courtesy to wait for an emote response before starting a script fight, which could be combatted with a /brawl command (although I would hate it if that were to be necessary).

 

At most I can see the rule be clarified by forcing the prioritizing of roleplay (even when hitting someone from behind, they can still respond with an emote first, I had it happen to my character and I didn't respond with my character shrugging it off and punching in return, that's obviously an easy powergaming offense, which is an example you mentioned before iirc). That would mean the aggressor in a script fight has to wait for the roleplay response (and yes that might cause a little bit of time fuckery, but it's roleplay, we can't do everything at the speed it happens), before knowing how to continue. If someone is dazed and falls after being hit from behind, not a single script punch has to be delivered, but a single one might make sense due to the inflicted damage going into the logs.

 

This is of course just my opinion, and others will have different ones. I understand your wish to clarify things, but I don't think there's one answer to this, and piling rule on rule and example on example just forces roleplay down set paths without freedom for players.

 

Even though you bring up valid points, I feel we're going round in circles and you're overthinking my proposal. Chances are we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. I'll keep my final thoughts extremely simple just in case I'm rambling.

 

I'm not asking for a step-by-step guide on how every fight should be conducted where not following their strict guidelines ends in punishment, I'm asking for clarification on what's considered the right way to initiate a script-fight so everybody is on the same page.

 

As a player who plays by the rules and has always played by the rules, I have NO IDEA how I'm supposed to fairly attack a player with the script IG.

 

I could emote, they emote back and punch me to the downed state while I'm typing.

I could emote, they emote back and I punch them in to the downed state.

I could emote and instantly beat them to the downed state.

They could emote and instantly beat me to the downed state.

 

ALL of the above could be considered perfectly fine to some or a clear breach of PG to others because there's no clear indication on how a script-fight should start. You have some admins who'll easily punish you for emoting and script-fighting a player without waiting for a response while another admin is proudly posting gifs of them doing the same on their faction's thread. There's a fine line between admin discretion and undefined rules leading to admins with widely different conclusions. 

 

We'd all benefit from clarification on how players should start a script-fight with another player.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by BINGBONGGHOST

[Triple Seven]

25 minutes ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

Even though you bring up valid points, I feel we're going round in circles and you're overthinking my proposal. Chances are we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. I'll keep my final thoughts extremely simple just in case I'm rambling.

 

I'm not asking for a step-by-step guide on how every fight should be conducted where not following their strict guidelines ends in punishment, I'm asking for clarification on what's considered the right way to initiate a script-fight so everybody is on the same page.

 

As a player who plays by the rules and has always played by the rules, I have NO IDEA how I'm supposed to fairly attack a player with the script IG.

 

I could emote, they emote back and punch me to the downed state while I'm typing.

I could emote, they emote back and I punch them in to the downed state.

I could emote and instantly beat them to the downed state.

They could emote and instantly beat me to the downed state.

 

ALL of the above could be considered perfectly fine to some or a clear breach of PG to others because there's no clear indication on how a script-fight should start. You have some admins who'll easily punish you for emoting and script-fighting a player without waiting for a response while another admin is proudly posting gifs of them doing the same on their faction's thread. There's a fine line between admin discretion and undefined rules leading to admins with widely different conclusions. 

 

We'd all benefit from clarification on how players should start a script-fight with another player.

 

Indeed, everything has been addressed in my previous post, where I suggested the following as a clarification which benefits the roleplay quality we're all after.

 

Quote

At most I can see the rule be clarified by forcing the prioritizing of roleplay (even when hitting someone from behind, they can still respond with an emote first, I had it happen to my character and I didn't respond with my character shrugging it off and punching in return, that's obviously an easy powergaming offense, which is an example you mentioned before iirc). That would mean the aggressor in a script fight has to wait for the roleplay response (and yes that might cause a little bit of time fuckery, but it's roleplay, we can't do everything at the speed it happens), before knowing how to continue.

 

This also benefits people that roleplay getting the drop on someone (and actually doing so). They get a way more meaningful interaction than inputting a single emote and then left clicking until their target is downed by the script (which more often than not will lead to a "/b lol what?" response, simple because it's not expected and has little to do with roleplay. The response they get from the other player's emote they need to wait for will benefit their character's emotional development hopefully (example: beating someone to the ground isn't something you'd do again lightly, if you see your victim go unconscious and flop to the ground, or even have a seizure, that's not a pretty sight). Players who don't roleplay their character being caught by surprise when they're obviously at a disadvantage will be able to be punished within the current rules, whereas the attackers will need to actually roleplay and be able to gather evidence against rulebreakers, instead of preventing everyone from roleplaying by (ab)using/prioritizing the script.

 

TL;DR: Sure, clarify, but do so with a heavy roleplay focus and keep the script as a tool, not a rule/standard.

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[Lexy]

brawls aren't a big deal, i'm more curious about inclusion of melee weapons. some say...

a) u absolutely cannot use melee weapons to script fight, you have to emote and wait for reaction
b) others say scroll, stab-stab, then get shot by a random guy with a gun from behind who wasn't even included in that rp

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

20 minutes ago, Tammm said:

brawls aren't a big deal, i'm more curious about inclusion of melee weapons. some say...

a) u absolutely cannot use melee weapons to script fight, you have to emote and wait for reaction
b) others say scroll, stab-stab, then get shot by a random guy with a gun from behind who wasn't even included in that rp

You're allowed to scroll certain small melee weapons without emotes, the rest you have to roleplay and emote as if you would with a large firearm. If people tell you you're not allowed to use melee weapons while script-fighting I'm assuming they're a little confused.

 

Everything's under rule 15, scrolling weapons: 

 

[Lexy]

I mean more like... scrolling a knife to assault somebody in script instead of role-playing it out fully.

like... /me brings a knife out of her pocket, charging Jimmy McMuffin --- then script scroll, make sure Jimmy is not typing or anything, then just stab him in script

instead of... /me brings a knife out of her pocket, charging Jimmy in an attempt to stab him. Does she succeed? 

[Dunc]

Hey. After carefully considering your current position amongst this turmoil, I am kindly requesting that I be given the permission to hurl my fist at your jaw.

 

S/F ?

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

 

👀

 

Let's see how this pans out this time.

Edited December 2, 2021 by BINGBONGGHOST