Kidnapping in public / broad daylight with guns

[Narco]

So I've been browsing around the forum reports section, as well as have played a lot ingame, and I've noticed anytime gangmembers (usually younger) have firearms, when they get into a beef with someone and know they don't have anything on them they can steal, they attempt to "kidnap" them in public with firearms in broad daylight, it recently happened to myself upon stealing a car in broad daylight in the middle of the street, as well as to many other players just running around with duffel bags etc. I find it highly unrealistic for any young gang members to pull a gun out on someone in public or in broad daylight, and try to kidnap them in their car. There's literal squads of individuals that are constantly doing stuff like this, and it's highly non-roleplay.

 They kidnap somebody, you have nothing on you, they just try to waste your time ooc'ly by rp'ly humiliating you through non-roleplay ways even though they have no intention of no longer robbing you and cannot kill you as you haven't given them a reason. This is purely a way to waste other players time and leave them in the middle of nowhere, forced to run back which is highly unrealistic. Sure you could post an RP quality report, although until this is actually a listed rule, a lot of players will continue to abuse this non-roleplay behavior and continue it.

 

No youth gang members are kidnapping people with pistols out in broad daylight in Los Angeles or anywhere in California. That just does not happen, especially over "beef", they would simply beat the person. Young illegal roleplayers often just resort to pistols rather than beating someone up, and simply do not like the fact they cannot get there way (trying to steal items/loot someone) so they have to kidnap them to waste their time purposely OOC'ly, and not obtain anything out of it. Basically kidnapping with poor buildup, and horrible portrayal overall.

 

[orca112]

"If there are people on the street, let them call 911. If they aren't calling 911, then that's an IC issue."

 

That is the result of our official IFM ruling - both time, understandable due to timezones of the players, and location are not relevant anymore (in regards to crime). This the the reality your character is facing, a crime-ridden city you are not safe from predatory individuals just looking to either rob, kidnap or kill you at any given time. May this be in the front yard of your house, in eyesight of a police station, outside a club or anywhere else.

 

 

 

 

[SezzeseParola]

Let's leave the trollish behavior continue because why again, precisely?

15 minutes ago, orca112 said:

"If there are people on the street, let them call 911. If they aren't calling 911, then that's an IC issue."

 

That is the result of our official IFM ruling - both time, understandable due to timezones of the players, and location are not relevant anymore (in regards to crime). This the the reality your character is facing, a crime-ridden city you are not safe from predatory individuals just looking to either rob, kidnap or kill you at any given time. May this be in the front yard of your house, in eyesight of a police station, outside a club or anywhere else.

 

 

 

 

 

[Triple Seven]

I don't think this should be an addition to the rules as it's basically the basis of the rules and the outset of the server: heavy roleplay demands a sense of realism. Kidnapping is one of the worst crimes one can commit and as such should not be done lightly when the initial outset is a robbery. RP quality is definitely be a factor here. When someone doesn't have something of value you can steal from them during a robbery, maybe you utter a threat and then you should just let them go, cursing to yourself and maybe even roleplaying conflict with your fellow robbers over the poor choice of target, but elevating it from robbery of items to robbery of freedom for much longer, that's a big no-no from me. The punishment when caught ICly is 25% higher (5 days as compared to 4), but due to the low risk and generally low duration of punishments for acts of crime IC, no one cares about this most likely.

 

I do agree the IFM statement has done more bad than good to the server, removing a fair amount of realism from the mind of criminal characters/roleplayers, because important factors don't have to be taken into account anymore or are completely moved to IC. This means a player can abuse the fact players can't populate the streets completely to get away with pretty much anything, their character doesn't have to plan a thing, because there can't be any consequences.

In contrast to the statement we have also seen that while admins are spectating break-ins, they act as NPC's to call 911 as a concerned citizen if they deem it realistic. On it's own I think the latter is positive, but it doesn't make sense when taking the IFM statement - which I think wasn't thought through properly, or biased to one side of the spectrum at the least - into account.

 

TL;DR: Realistically you wouldn't elevate robberies to kidnapping, the IFM statement has hurt realism and the staff team is clearly switching between two differing views in terms of dealing with crime on an OOC level since the statement was posted.

[NickyW]

On 7/13/2021 at 12:46 AM, orca112 said:

"If there are people on the street, let them call 911. If they aren't calling 911, then that's an IC issue."

 

That is the result of our official IFM ruling -

 

 

 

 

 

If this is the official IFM ruling, then why are admins constantly making 911 calls when nobody's around on silly, made up temp characters like "Joe Farmer" lmao

[F0r3sT]

34 minutes ago, NickyW said:

 

If this is the official IFM ruling, then why are admins constantly making 911 calls when nobody's around on silly, made up temp characters like "Joe Farmer" lmao

Admins can't do Concerned Citizen calls anymore during breakins anymore. I might be wrong tho.

Edited July 14, 2021 by F0r3sT

[L I C E]

We live in Brazil and you will like it. Thanks IFM!

[Law]

Just going to say, being fucked over once or twice is fine, attempting to preserve immersion of criminal characters is fine, it's in everyone's interests.

 

But having 3 pages of unofficial groups chipping away at your assets because it's not peak time yet and the risk is minimal no matter where you are? You're having a laugh. I feel like IFM should regain focus in consolidating people into official factions instead of having this splintered map where every group is biting for the last piece of unoccupied Los Santos. Getting chump-checked by a new group every turn you take is wack and just as immersion breaking for people trying to get to actual roleplay. Why should PM charge players extra $$$ for a house/business due to it's "location" if some "local" from across the map can still hold you up like it's an alleyway. 

 

Here I present what living in Los Santos feels like:

 

[Perstephone]

There is literally not a safe place on the map to be outside an interior alone. It really is that bad now. People constantly complain about PF warriors and CCW holders, but where is the realism when characters literally can't walk from their front door to their car without worry of being robbed and kidnapped 

 

I had this situation a long while back, where players were told by staff they weren't allowed to ransack my house without a break in request. They were angry OOC so for zero IC reason they took the char from Mirror Park to Paleto Bay and pushed them off a pier and left. 

 

People need to stop taking ooc frustrations IC. In general. If you can't take an L and keep going, you shouldn't RP.

 

On a side note, another bug bear of mine. When we talk about a realistic response to being robbed/threatened. It's a realistic response for someone who lives in LS. Where the crime rate is higher than Wiz Khalifa. 

 

Tl;dr: Realism goes both ways, you don't get to create a city that is basically just ALL Davis now and expect people who aren't criminals to ignore the fact that they'd be safer in Syria. 

[HeyMambo]

Yep, completely agree that the current stance of IFM hurts the server more than it helps. Got punished for saying it. Still think the same way. I'm glad others are starting to feel the same.

 

Another part of that statement: "If a criminal perceives that the risk of robbing a target is too high, then they will not conduct a robbery."

 

That would be all good and well except there is no risk anymore. Taking population completely IC and disregarding all realistic aspects of living in a city basically made the risk non-existent. As evidenced in this thread, they simply don't care where and when they commit crime or what lengths they go to.